NOT every football fan in England is hanging on every word about Wayne Rooney's metatarsal.
In fact, it's fair to say that a sizeable chunk of the Red half of Manchester is praying that the Scouse sensation does NOT recover in time for the World Cup.
Sir Alex Ferguson insists that his staff are doing everything they can to give Rooney a fighting chance of making it but the United boss is adamant that he will not risk his star player's future by allowing him to be rushed back too soon.
For many United fans, the matter is simple. Rooney has to be fit for the start of the Premiership season - otherwise the Reds risk another campaign of vainly chasing Chelsea.
But the indifference of many United fans to England, an indifference which sometimes breaks out into outright hostility, goes way beyond the tug of war over Rooney.
The hardcore of United's support does not "do" England, for reasons which have all kinds of historical, cultural, geographical and footballing roots.
Authority
Mancunians have always been a feisty lot, never afraid to question authority or stand up to injustice - hence the Peterloo massacre, or the mill workers' refusal to handle Confederate cotton during the American Civil War, in solidarity with the slaves.
It is a city proud of its own identity and tradition, and suspicious of the motives of the capital city, whether that be the Government or the Football Association.
And the fact that Manchester has always been an immigrant city, with waves of Flemish, Irish, Jewish, Levantine, German and Italian people settling here since the 14th century, has perhaps caused many of us to have a suspicious view of patriotism.
The old Stretford End banner reading "Republic of Mancunia" perhaps sums it up - Manchester has tended to see itself as a city apart in many ways, in football as in culture and politics.
United's support drew heavily from the city's Irish immigrant population in its early years, and many of its modern Mancunian support are second and third generation Irish, hardly conducive to supporting England.
The 1966 World Cup was celebrated by the nation, but the mood had started to change in Manchester by the Seventies, when England was starting to be perceived as just another southern team - and not a particularly good one. United fans watched United, and most match-going England fans were from London and the south, with virtually all home games being played at Wembley.
Injuries
An England under-23 match at Old Trafford in 1976 had the Stretford End cheering when one of the five United players in the team touched the ball, and booing when any other England player did. They ended with a plaintive chant of "We'd rather watch United..."
If that jaundiced view of England was setting in during the Seventies, it was reinforced in the Eighties, when it seemed that no United player could go away on international duty with England without sustaining serious, and sometimes career-ending, injuries.
Gary Bailey, Steve Coppell and Neil Webb all had their careers cut short through injuries they received playing for their country, while Bryan Robson also suffered.
By the Nineties, United were the biggest thing in English football so any doubts that United supporters might need a second-rate second team had been blown away.
Add to that the increasingly strained relationship between United and the FA, and the divorce between United's core support and England was just about complete.
England are the FA's team, rather than the nation's, and the FA is heavily influenced by anti-United forces, not least Arsenal and David Dein, who is a vice-chairman of both. So the reasoning goes.
Sir Alex Ferguson has helped to fuel that particular fire by accusing the FA of singling United out for harsh treatment.
For many angry Reds, England and the FA are indistinguishable, all part of the Establishment.
Of course, the situation is not black and white. There are United fans who will be in Germany supporting England, and there are those who will be desperate for them to get knocked out as soon as possible, and in between there is a mass of supporters who will want England to do well or who could not care less.
Most of those in that middling group would not want England to do well if it meant risking Rooney for United next season.
What do you think? Have your say.
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Utter nonsense..if United fans (those of us actually from England) can't get behind the England football team, when do you get behind the country? No wonder everyone else hates us. Since when were we above the country? I couldn't give a monkeys about other England fans hating United or the FA. This is the England team. Get behind the boys.
It's a long time since I read such utter drivel. How has the author manufactured this story in his misguided head? I'll be amazed if it gets any level of agreement or support, except from non-English people. Come on, MEN, let's have some real news, not more World Cup peripheral hype.
Most Man-u fans are not even from Manchester. Except Mick Hucknall
Im Irish and I reckon this story is a load of rubbish. Id like to see Rooney play in the WC if possible. Why would it be a good thing to stop him if he could under some circumstance play. The guy would be depressed for the summer and that is no way to start the new season.
What is he talking about?? Juz how can the people not support the country they came frm?
Im a manchester united fans & definitely not frm England but that doesnt stop me frm supporting England in the world cup. & when i said England it definitely include John Terry/ Joe Cole/Lampard/Steven G/ Owen & the rest..meaning those players frm chelsea, liverpool , arsenal & where ever as long as they wear the three lions shirt, i'll support them.
What we as utd fans are concern about is our players future especially Rooney whom have been Man of the match for the utd for most of the tyme last season & dat doesnt mean we didnt care for England...
Rooney was very important to England but he means more to Utd...
Why was the world expecting rooney to play when there are lot of other England players which are gd & capable to win the world cup, even w.o him??? Why were everybody blaming Sir Alex for being to over protective over Rooney & for not wanting to let him play? Why were Sven still waiting for rooney & indeed name him as one of the players to world cup when the result are not even out yet?? Do i hv to say it out?? All the reason are because everybody ( yes everybody...) knows what Rooney are capable to do for a team, be it England or Utd, & since its a sore for the nation not to see wayne playing for the world cup what does dat mean to us Utd fans when we were also unable to see him play by the end of the world cup, when he came back with a new worst injury???
With Nisterooy almost leaving (despite i dont want him to..), try to think if we could afford losing wayne at the premiership??
In England, if wayne doesnt play, Peter Crouch, Owen Or the new guy Walcott could always take his place if not steven or joe but in Utd, if we are to lose him...dat will be left with (inconsistent) Saha & Rossi (heard that he too would be on loan next summer)...
What we are focusing rite now is a new midfielder, we wont want it to be finding a new striker instead. So pls do understand how we Utd fans feels & i think we are the best fans around cause we think for the club like we are working for it. What ever people say, its always be better to play safe then sorry isn't it?
And for your info, winning the premiership cup again is as important to us, United fans like England to win the World Cup...The premiership is indeed a world cup tournament for us...
Get behnd me Satan! This is utter drivel.
First of all Rooney would not give a monkeys if he knew full well that his foot is just NOT going to fully heal for him to make any significant contribution to the team, and so can spend the Summer recuperating and generating enough energy and venom to unleash the MOTHER of all attacks on the Premier League and CL.
I think THAT is what every United fan is thinking.
We're not saying that he shouldn't play because ew want him fit for the next season, we're saying 'look if he's had a scan on June 7th, and it still shows an niggling hairline fracture to his main foot area, then FORGET IT!!!. England have enough talent in the likes of Gerrard, Joe Cole, Lampard, Owen, Beckham (yes still Beckham has it, if you saw Real's last game where he scored a wicked free kick, and then another one from open play).
Plus, you never know, Walcott and Lennon may just become major surprises and put a smile on everyone's faces.
Injuries happen, and no one can say when they happen, or how fast they should heal. Just let nature take its course and live with it.
Last European Championship was a nightmare, we had Rooney with a broken foot, Ronaldo off playing Olympics after Euro 04, Ruud was injured, Rio was off for drugs, and Heinze was also off playing in Olympics. The full team didnt even get together until late September!!!!
Enough!!!
Lets for once start a season with our top players fully fit, and with new blood in midfield to send shivers down opponents necks.
I'm a United fan and I hope Rooney does not play in the world cup. If he gets injured again then he may miss most of next season. It's just not worth the risk, after all we pay his wages! Rooney would be better off staying at home and focusing on next season for United. Winning the Premiership is more important and helping United do well in Europe. England will benefit in the long run so that he can be back in action to help England qualify for Euro 2008. Fergie has done the right thing by making sure Wayne goes nowhere except Carrington for his rehabilitaion. One again, Fergie, the wily old fox has outwitted the media.
Mr Scrivins.
Oh dear ! - If you can't comment without quoting such misinformed
rubbish then please dont bother.
As for the question in hand - I'm a Man U fan and have been a regular at OT since the early 70's (and by the way I live in Manchester - I only work in Stockport).
I would love to see the boy wonder at the world cup - anything that will help England - I am also very patriotic.
A club of Manu U's standing really shouldnt be so reliant on such a young player.
I sincerely hope that Wayne is ready for the start of the season, but feel if we spend wisely in the summer and target the correct areas then we should be able to manage short term without any of our players -no matter who they may be.
If we have to start the season without
Rooney then someone else will get their chance - Rossi must be very close to getting a run in the team anyway and I expect us to buy another forward if RVN and Alex dont sort out their differences soon.
Wayne is under enough pressure already without us making out that if he isnt fit come mid August that our season is over before it starts.
Lets have some faith in the rest of the squad we have in place and whoever we bring in before then.
Keep the faith !!
What a load of rubbish. Been a long time fans of MU, this is the first time I read a story of a MU fan don't want MU player go for WC. Don't manipulate history, especially Mancunian and Irish, if you don't know what you're talking about! And please unveil your mask, are you Pool or Arse supporter?
i couldn't care less about england. its not about being patriotic its about being a die-hard red unable to support any other football team including england.
Are you sure you are describing the same city that I was born and bred in for 58years and the same team that I have supported for 50years? One of us have been living in a vacuum. I hope Rooney makes the world cup and makes me proud as I was in 1966 to watch England lift the World Cup having MU players representing us.
This actually missed the two major points in modern football that caused United fans to close ranks against England the first was after the beckham sending off in world cup when the rest of the country backed by the press blamed beckham for englands failure and to a lesser extent when neville was vilified for the penalty he gave away in the european championships. Lets not forget this is not one way though beckham, neville etc have all been berated by england fans because they are united players but as bad as this is you can sort of understand why other fans hate them but it was the berating of scholes which amazed the united fans because he was a perfect pro who kept his opinions to himself oh and he was also world class.
All you 'United fans' who say this is rubbish (apart from the guy with the first comment) Question: how would you know seeing that you are not from Manchester (hence the whole point of the article) This is about Mancunian Reds, not United fans in general. If you'd actually ever been to a United game the 'Argentina' chant might be a bit of a give away... Me and many local reds have always been of the same opinion: United come first, England second. That's not to say that we won't be behind them in the World Cup, but United come first. Simple. Remember the whole Becks and Phil Neville incidents? They were crucified by the whole country (mainly because they played United) This upset us a little bit to say the least! Plus, the many England fans are bitter lower league fans and cockneys - you know, the kind of fans who throw deckchairs around town squares). So, in conclusion, it's probably best you don't comment on things you don't understand.
Wayne Rooney is a Utd player and wants to play in the WC, so every medical effort should be made to get him there.However I for one wont be shedding any tears if he doesnt make it.Utd are far more important than England,the WC,the Olympics,Govt,Iraq,the enviroment,religion,immigration...marriage,work anything really????
I was not aware of the indifference of some United fans towards England. I thought that the US team had it rough when it went and played in Los Angeles or any city in Texas. Playing in L.A. against Mexico means that 80,000 people will be cheering against you in your home turf - now that's disturbing! Anyways, I don't see the London supporters cheering against England any time soon since they barely make a contribution to the England side! Arsenal might want France to get knocked out early!
Rubbish! I am a United supporter and I want Rooney to play (if he is well-recovered) in World Cups. In fact I want ALL United players to play in World Cups because they are, IMHO, the best players on Earth and best players should play in World Cup to show off themselves, NOT rooting at home watching others play and receive the spotlights. If any of them gets injured in World Cup so be it, nobody can predict its coming and football is a physical sport anyways. I just don't want our players to get injured or get worn out in stupid international friendlies. That is an entirely different matter.
I've been following EPL and a big fan of MU. I Despise Arsenal for not having a single British player.I love to see Rooney in WC and I'm 100% behind the team of England. The only Dilemma for me is that the US team might have to face the British team down the road.
Fox in Australia - you must have remarkable powers to be able to judge the mood in Manchester from the other side of the world.
Jeff of Manchester, you have no real excuse. If you think there is not a significant section of United's support that ranges from indifference to hostility to England, I don't know what part of Manchester you are in.
The article is clearly trying to explain why many fans are, at least, not bothered about England.
One thing it doesn't mention is that it is also true of many other big cities that club comes before country - you don't see many Liverpool, Newcastle or Villa flags at England games either.
I was born in England and am a mancunian and agree with a lot of the points raised in the article. As a United Season Ticket holder I have no interest at all in Ingerland or anything concerning the national team. From personal experience most of the matchgoing England support is borderline racist made up of fans from lower league clubs. No other countries sing their national anthems,songs about not being slaves or about not surrendering to the IRA. I actually hope Argentina win the world Cup.
This article is drivel. I was at Wembley in 1968 and remember the manchester joy for Nobby and Bobby in 1966 and the atmosphere in 1966 when everyone red and blue celebrated.
As for wayne, best wishes and get fit for United's new season. Enjoy the hotel in Baden baden but you'd be better off training and working in Manchester to get right for next season. Wayne would be a great asset in a squad competition without an injury, but as he is right now he hasn't got match fitness. His opportunity to star in a World Cup is four years away,sadly for him as he has shown real commitment to get mobile and to keep up his physique, Credit united with offering him and England any hope of participating.
There is a valid debate about Fa mismanagement but to throw that in here is as inappropriate as to raise the Wembley fiasco as a reason for mancs not supporting England. Has Old Trafford had any empty seats for England games held there in the last few years?
Course we wanna see Rooney in the World Cup, but listen to what the article says, not at the expense of Rooney injuring himself more so. I grew up in England, and like most kids at the time was buzzing in Italia 90 and that, but doesn't really excite me much any more, but the story's right to a certain degree; I know loads of people from round my way who didn't really go mental for England, City fans included. And, as he says, a reason for that is a lot of the crowd I was with were Manc Irish Catholics, 2nd and 3rd generation. Of course some did go for England, some didn't, thats all the article is saying, he's not saying all the Reds hate England or anything, so settle down all you Tony Blair loving, bulldog owning, cup of tea drinking fanatics. Me personally, I would rather United win the League a million times over than England win the World Cup, but that's my opinion. Whereas I would like to see England do well, it doesn't mean to say I want Portugal to do well because Ronaldo plays for them, etc etc. Think some of you England fans are bit hypocritical anyway; slagging off Gerrard for being a Sweaty then kissing his backside when he plays for England, but again, that's just my opinion. You have your own, like the guy who did the article...
Given Stuarts unswerving devotion to all things FC why has he been asked to give his opinion on Rooney. Along with all the other FC camp followers all they are interested in is the financial collapse of United.
This has got to be a wind up. When I read it, it made my blood boil. Lets just wait and see shall we as to whether or not Rooney is fit for the World Cup.
This article is one of the most paranoid and small minded pieces of journalism I have ever read. Has this guy ever been out of Manchester? Is the north west and Mancunian football fans really this parochial? I am surprised he didn't bring whippets and pigeons in to the argument. Pathetic.
Brainwave Brennan strikes again. This guy has got to be the worst journalist in the world! And how the MEN can give this prejudiced, narrow-minded, myopic person a voice is incredible. Anyway I thought that according to Brennan the "hardcore support" went to FC United along with Brennan. I was born and bred in Old Trafford and Stretford and yes, most people had an immigrant background but there was never any anti-England feeling and most people watched and supported the national team. The fact that a lot of foriegners (that is non-English) attend the games and express a disdain for England does not mean that all Mancunians hate England, let's leave that to Brennan! Infantile article which shows the pathetic level that the MEN is at!