Ruud's goal: Was it a penalty?

October 25, 2004

CONTROVERSY: Arsenal players argue as Ruud van Nistelrooy prepares to take his penalty

MANCHESTER United brought Arsenal's long, unbeaten run to an end yesterday with a 2-0 win, but controversy rages over whether the Reds' first, scored by Ruud van Nistelrooy, was a deserved penalty. Here we state the case for and against, then you can have your say.

Ruud van Nistelrooy scored the first goal with a 73rd-minute penalty - but should United have been given the spot-kick in the first place?

FOR

A sharp touch from Wayne Rooney had the beating of England team-mate Sol Campbell on the slippery Old Trafford surface.

The Arsenal man definitely stuck out his left leg and made no contact with the ball as Rooney went to ground.

From referee Mike Riley's position it must have looked a clear penalty.

AGAINST

Increasingly, top players have developed a worrying knack of looking for contact whenever a leg is left in the tackle - note Robert Pires' crafty piece of gamesmanship which kept Arsenal's unbeaten run going in its early stages against Portsmouth last season, when the Frenchman initiated contact with Dejan Stefanovic to win a spot-kick.

It just may be that the Gunners got a taste of their own medicine yesterday. Campbell left a leg out but the level of contact appeared to be minimal, and Rooney appeared to be going down before any contact was made.

Was it a pen? have your say

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Roger, Tromso, norway (25/10/2004 at 10:33)

In my opinion the referee made the wrong decision in both the penalty situation and the following situation when ronaldo did not get an penalty. There's clearly no touch between rooney ang campbell. But the important thing is 3 points won. Keep the red flag flying high

Rene, Utrecht (Holland) (25/10/2004 at 10:36)

Of course it wasn't a penalty and Rooney should have been cautioned. However, Ronaldo should have had a penalty after being brought down by Cole in the corner of the penalty area, which also should have resulted in a second yellow for Cole. So I'm not much bothered, because in this case, two wrongs make a right. One could even argue that the Arse were lucky because they didn't lose Cole.

Allan B, Denmark (25/10/2004 at 10:36)

It was not a penalry, but who cares.. what comes around goes around as we watched later when Ronaldo should have had a penalty

simon, london (25/10/2004 at 10:39)

you're just a bunch of cheats can't play football have to kick us off the pitch you are the only disgrace

Harry Barracuda, Bahrain (25/10/2004 at 10:47)

The referee decided the result of this match. He blatantly ignored many deliberate and spiteful tackles on Arsenal players and awarded a penalty for a challenge in which there wasn't even any contact.
It's probably the only way Arsenal were going to get beaten, and they will bounce back from it.
But Wiley should never again referee a match involving his Manchester United friends. Either that, or just award them a penalty before every game so that the opposition know what they're up against.

Debbie, Cheshire (25/10/2004 at 10:54)

Ok...so there may have been 'minimal' contact...the fact is Campbell didn't get the ball and restricted Rooney from pushing forward...definite penalty. Did this not happen to Pires against Portsmouth??
Not that it matters...Rooney's final contribution to the game concludes we deserved the 3 points, regardless.

extaggartfan, worsley (25/10/2004 at 11:03)

its not taken rooney long to get enrolled in the salford diving club has it.
can't anyone win on merit and skill these days instead of outright cheating.

Macca, London (25/10/2004 at 11:34)

Two wrongs don't in this case make a right - as Alan Hansen pointed out, the Ronaldo incident (which I agree was a penalty) came as Arsenal were stretched by having to chase the game being a goal down to a penalty that never was. and that's ignoring the fact that United could easily have found themselves down to nine players. Good luck to Malcolm Glazer from all of us down here.

Andy, London (25/10/2004 at 11:36)

It's as hypocritical of Arsenal fans to bleat about these decisions as it is for United fans to defend Rooney and criticise Pires.

Paul, London (25/10/2004 at 11:53)

It was not a penalty in the context of that match. Riley had blinkers on for all the contentious decisions up until that point. He had set his standard for the game and then decided to change it and hand the victory to man utd. But 5th behind Everton and Bolton? Don't get too excited

Chris, Florida (25/10/2004 at 11:54)

Of course it wasn't a penalty... you have to actually make contact before it is considered a foul. There's no surprise that when a ManUre player dives at OT the ref bottles it and gives a penalty. The only surprising thing was that it wasn't Ruud Van Nistelorooy doing the diving for once.
Van Nistelorooy shouldn't have even been on the field after that disgraceful attack on Cole.
Ferdinand clearly should have also gone for his foul on Ljungberg.
I also wonder how Neville manages to always last the full match against Arsenal.
The whole 'well we should have had a penalty later on anyway' and 'well we scored a second' are poor arguments since if ManUre had been down to the 8 or 9 players they should have been, those situations would never have arisen. Plus, if the ref had actually kept the thugs in line from the off, we would have played them of the pitch like we always do inbetween the cynical fouls.
It's the same every time... ManUre can't compete by playing football, so they kick lumps out of Arsenal.
A half decent ref and we'd be toasting 50 unbeaten right now.
8 ManUre penalties in 8 games at OT?

Harry, Texas (25/10/2004 at 11:58)

For those of who talking about two wrongs, Ronaldo would not have even seen what the arsenal box looks like had arsenal not been pushing upfield for the *RIGHTFULLY* earned penalty, at least in Riley's books

DR LOVE, FUNKY TOWN (25/10/2004 at 11:58)

NOT TO WORRY THE TITLE WILL END UP @ HIGHBURY!

Peter Gallagher, Manchester (25/10/2004 at 12:02)

No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. The camera shows Rooney went for the dive and the kind of Dive, Best, Charlton, Cantona would be ashamed and embarrassed of.

I want to ask, what kind of a club are we becoming now?

We merchandise ourselves. Foul and maim teams to win games.

Yesterday Arsenal would have beaten us and I would have been proud IF we had played a clear cut game of football and tried without having to break left backs knees and battering ram their wingers with our junkies.

I am disgusted to support this team. I am considering supporting Altrincham instead!!!

Mike, NS Upper (25/10/2004 at 12:03)

Who cares? We won!! I don't think it was a pen but the one on Ronaldo defitely was. About time they had a few decisions go against them. Arsenal have had there fair share of pens and dodgy ref decisions. Pires has been an absolute joke at times as have a few more such as Jeffers etc.

Chris, Florida (25/10/2004 at 12:05)

With a half decent ref, ManU would have been lucky to have finished the game with 10 players, nevermind 11.
Neville is always worth a sending off against Arsenal, ferdinand (their MOTM) should have gone for a professional foul and nobody can deny that Van N should have stayed on the field.
Same old story at OT... if they can kick us enough and get away with it, with a bit of luck and the ref's help they get something out of the game.

Dave, Manchester (25/10/2004 at 12:10)

No way was it a penalty. But seeing as how the ref did nothing about Rio's challenge on Bergkamp that should have seen him head for an early bath, it came as no surprise.
It's a pity that neither of these teams seem to be able to win games without cheating. Arsenal were the better team but had no chance against the red ref.
Rooney has definitely slotted straight in at Old Trafford and is learning fast from Van Nistleroy.
It's good to see that the press and the pundits are finally catching onto his game.
AND some of Ronaldos diving escapades were Olympic class.

Hopefully the reds will stop bleating about the scrapping last year now that they have played their part in aonther injustice.

Watching the match in the pub my opinion that reds fans have no interest in the sport was confirmed as they cheered every foul they committed and demanded that their players break legs. What lovely people.

I had hoped for a spectacle not a debacle. Oh well.

Mel Gibson, Manchester (25/10/2004 at 12:11)

Rooney turned, Campbell stuck his leg out, Rooney went over Campbell's leg - there wasn't really anywhere else he could have gone, at speed. If defenders choose to stick their legs in front of advancing strikers in the box, then they run the risk of conceding a penalty. What else could Rooney have done? Stopped, and decided not to try and get near the goal? Stayed on his feet with that tree trunk of a leg blocking his path? I see Pires and Toure weren't exactly shining examples of fair play at the other end of the pitch. I find it incredible that Mr Wenger never sees any of the incidents (or should that be gifts from the FA) that benefit his team of sore losers, but as soon as something goes against them, he has x-ray vision that can only be compared to that of Superman's.

de Meester, Amsterdammed (25/10/2004 at 12:13)

Heh, so what!?
There was minimal contact - or none - but how often has Arsce conned refs also.
We needed the win - more so than they and 49 you are out - let's hope Glazer also is!
Collectively I must say that Arsenal were better than us, we struggle dto hold a grip in mid-field, our problem area - we have so many 'so-named midfielders' but cannot get them to do what was once easy for the men in red shirts!
At the moment Smith typifies what we used to 1st expect from nited players 100% commitment!
Let's get the mid-field sorted out and win some more games soon.

Come On You Reds

Khey, London (25/10/2004 at 12:14)

Penalty or not, its sad that players can't stand up anymore in the penalty box. Contact was minimal, and he fell too easily for a big man. But then, didn't Kolo Toure try that in the penalty box later on? Bottom line is players do that all the time now. You just can't stomach the taste of your own medicine Arsenal fans. And kick you off the park? I think you were equally as agressive and stop crying about it. Football is a contact sport, guilty ones get punished (try justifying your card record under Wenger) and Man Utd got their tactics right twice this year. You think Adams and Co would go crying to the media that so and so were being aggressive? I don't think so.

Daz, Manchester (25/10/2004 at 12:18)

All those Gooners who think the title is already in the bag, just remember how Newcastle had it in Jan and lost by May. Never count United as down, ask Bayern Munich!

Alias Smith, over the moon (25/10/2004 at 12:30)

Sour grapes & whinging from lots of Gooners - what a surprise.

Dave, Manchester (25/10/2004 at 12:32)

If my last comment gets published, for Bergkamp, read Ljunberg.

Old trafford Champions section, North London (25/10/2004 at 12:33)

I was there yesterday and I have to say I never Believed in this switch of power thing until I saw United play like an away side at OT on the break(you used to attack like a wave) and your fans jumping around like 1st round giant killers having manufactured a win against the Champions..
so I guess it's true we really are the biggest scalp in the Prem now.....see you at Highbury.

Anthony, Hamilton, Canada (25/10/2004 at 12:35)

It is not the penalty incident that made the Arsenal players go beserk, again, after the match but the fact that they were not even close to win this game and that they were deservedly beaten. Hypocrites, that's what you are. You got specialist divers who will shame dolphins, even. Rooney did what Peres would have done, and did, on several occassions and only Campbells protests made them realise that there was no contest. The referee did what other referees would have done, from his position and give the penalty. No one, on this planet knew that there was no contact except the slo mo camera. Arsenal robbed themselves of losing with dignity to a team that was equal to them, if not a touch better on the day. If Cole and Reyes suffered so much pain on tackles, so did Heinze, Scholes, Rooney and Giggs, but they got up and played on. However, if anyone has got any doubts about the result of this match put your specs on and read the scoreboard and you will find it says 2 zip.

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