Watched the Arsenal under 16's demolish Wigan, if that's the future of Arsenal, then the rest of the Premiership need to be very afraid.They were magnificent and would be more than a handful for any Premiership side even today. Our "second" team doesn't make it in comparison.

Once again I'm not sure of Fergies motivation. We are certainly not scoring for fun in any game we play and yet when given a gilt edge opportunity he chooses not to let Welbeck and Manucho have some game time. If no pressure is applied from the reserves then Berbatov and Rooney can start counting their chickens!

Raphael was a 7 however yet gain Fergie gets it wrong.They spent most of the game hitting high balls to a bunch of diddie men.Where was manucho?

Surely Manucho could have played, also gibson's description carrick like cool head but didnt influence sounds just like carrick to me.

Seamus, thats why I was annoyed we didn't land Ramsey - he looks like a great player in the making.

Cant really comment on last nights game because didn't get to hear or see anything of it, how did our young lads look?

Give KitKat 10. Watching the poor sod trying to keep warm with nothing to do in the tipping rain was more interesting than watching us trying to score. And 8 to the QPR supporters, who did their bit.

Comparisons with Arsenal's youth team set up have been regularly made over the last few years.

I keep coming back to wondering why we bother with our current hugely expensive Academy. Since the long gone days of the " Class of '92" we have produced vanishingly few first team players from within.

The average cost of each successful graduate ( Brown, O'Shea etc?) probably makes them as expensive as Hargreaves!

SAF has made regular changes to the youth infrastructure, but nothing seems to have worked. He blames FA rules about recruits having to live locally, but ignores the fact that all clubs operate under the same constraints and that there are plenty of examples of other clubs doing much better with less resource.

Why not just admit we are not very good at cultivating talent of the right quality and ditch the whole set up?

We only need about 35 professionals and can recruit as we need to from other people's more successful Academies. In other words keep looking out for the da Silvas and Possebons without the need to expensively educate and train local no hopers from a very young age, just for the privilege of giving them free transfers to the lower leagues 10 years later.

The cost saving would be enormous and we could put more players on the field who stand a much better chance of being good enough.

This would be good news too for the banks and hedge funds who own the club.

Does anyone know of or can think of a good reason for Manucho NOT to have been given at least SOME playing time last night?? Or was not playing some part last night the result of muddled thinking?? Discuss!

As predicted an utterly pointless exercise (much like the competition itself) we cannot seem to find the back of the net so we play 70 minutes with one striker!? Genius at work.

chris, Danny Welbeck looks a real player; Rafael was his usual high-energy fun; everyone else was average to poor (of the kids, that is).

To be fair, QPR were so unbelievably negative that, until the game got a bit more stretched after the goal, there was very little space in the forward areas.

Yes, Arsenal's kids are annoying, but I think if we continue to mimic their recruitment policy (ie importing/half inching top young talent), we'll have some good kids, too. Fifa may put a stop to this so we need to crack on!

To be fair to Wenger, in addition to the foreign boys, he's now bringing through some talented young English players.

It is depressing, though, when you see a lower league plodder like Darren Gibson as the 'flagship' of Utd's youth system.

Thanks for that Robbo!

Django, Arsenal are forced by financial problems to have a smaller setup for us. Over the last 4 years they have been lauded by the media for their youngsters' performances in the Carling Cup. Fair enough. They have looked good. But how many have broken into the senior side? How many trophies have Arsenal won in those 4 years?

Having kids who can play well as a team in the CC against disinterested players from other teams doesn't mean that they will go on to be premiership stars of the future. History suggests that they will end up at Birmingham or Wigan or Portsmouth.

I don't see that our setup is in any way inferior to Arsenal's. They may have found ways to bypass the 90 minute rule quicker than we did but they don't produce any more stars than we do and certainly they don't produce more 'home-growns'.

Brian Taylor, I was disappointed not to see Manucho but he has been injured and maybe could only manage a cameo showing. With the game so tight, I would have thought that he would have come on with Welbeck but the goal probably scuppered that.

Django, can you name say half dozen players produced by other PL clubs' academies in the last 5 years that would be good enough to get in the current United team?

If you were a QPR supporter, what were your thoughts on the way home last night. Ok so you have a season ticket and it's a night out with the boys but bloody hell. Negative football against a team full of reserves. Another manager headed out the door before long I hope for QPR'S sake. So what if you get beat 4-0 at OT. It means nothing as long as you've at least given it your best shot. Mickey Thomas on the radio is unbelieveably boring in fact he got me depressed so I switched it off.

t&c, you probably know more about this than me, but I read a recent interview with Brian McClair which featured extremely disparaging quotes from Fergie re youth football in England.

If I remember correctly, he dismissed most of it as 'very ordinary' and said these days Utd are much more interested in entering teams in these international mini-tournaments (the standard is miles higher, the players learn more).

Having recently upgraded my collaboration levels to include MUTV, I have to say I find the standard of Academy (and Reserve team) games dispiritingly poor. Invariably, they descend into 400mph physical slogs, with little or no football, tackle after tackle after tackle (after tackle), no control, flair or imagination.

Watching Rafael and Fabio in the reserves, the bewilderment on their faces at the long ball nightmare that passes for 'football' in England was extremely troubling. Why don't all the teams... 1. Slow down a bit; and 2. Try and pass the bloody thing?

T&C good attempt at trying to explain why Manucho didn't play last night, but it still doesn't really make sense. If you were right then why didn't Manucho come on with Welbeck, or come on instead of Welbeck, or why was he on the bench if he was so unfit??? The whole approach by QPR gave every reason to throw on Manucho at some stage at least surely? Still looking for a reasonable explanation!

KK 4, truly nowt to do- touched ball once in 1st half to take a dead ball! ...until came out horrendously flapping (& got nowhere near) a ball into the box late on.

Tonto 8, quality performance, quality footballer.

Evans 8, cool & calm. perfect approach to such a game, esp' bearing in mind qpr didnt even play 1 up front till late on!

GN 7 - dealt with anything required. Urged team on, got forward too BUT still showed a few signs that not all is well with the ageing union rep.

Oaf shea 6, comical really. Must look along the line at the young 'uns & think "oh dear!". didn't realise a player could cut inside onto his right foot as much as that either. Took it to a new level.

Gibson 6.5, nice & neat thats all. looked better when Possebon went off, but prob cos he had all the midfield to sort! The extra 1/2 is for when they had one great opening in the 2nd half (on the break where we had no-one back) & he sprinted 60yds diagonally accross field to snuff them out. V.good engine.... but ultimately another 'non-united' player.

possebon 4 - very poor, looked to be hiding. imo, i think the 'tackle' has whacked his confidence?! Not to be judged on this alone though.

Park 6.5, worked hard as per. The extra 1/2 is for the shot that hit the post though based on the rest of his performance i wonder if he meant it. wish he'd open his eyes when he crosses too!!

Anders 6, has it all apart from the banjo, cow's backside, barn door etc,etc. & i'm sorry.... BUT HE's LAZY !

Nini 3, He was pure bab!without doubt he's the most frustrating & annoying player i've ever seen. He can do it though. Think he's thick too, which can't help & his head looks like it should be on the end of a pencil!

Tevez 8, was just Tevez. worked hs backside off, ran down every blind alley going, stopped me falling asleep (in tandem with the cold) - but a damn good job he was playing.

Wellbeck 7 - the lad has to play more. He's got that something!!

Saf 5 - for playing one little man up front on his own against a team with 6,000 behind the ball!

Didn't see the game but a couple of things concerns me. One: If Manucho doesn't get the nod in a game like this, when will he ever get the chance? Is he a new Dong? Second: We need a penalty to break down QPR. We've spent near £40 mill. on Nani and Anderson and consider to splash another £30 mill. on Tevez, and they can't kill off a game against lower opposition home at Old Trafford! Third: SAFs tactics - again. One striker. Doesn't give players like Manucho and Wellbeck a reasonable chance to prove what they could be about. And why put Gary Neville in central defence? That's certainly not one worth testing for the future and if it was important to give some of the regulars gametime to gain match fitness, I'd tought that Carrick was one of those who'd have got a run last night.

Was annoyed to hear Manucho didn't even make it on to the pitch, very strange!!

Maybe he's going out on loan or maybe fergie forgot he signed the big Angolan, was looking forward to him getting some time as he looks a real handful!!

Robbo, the 90 minute rule disadvantages a lot of the clubs that we play, as well as us. If you're a kid with some talent from Wigan you have a choice of a dozen clubs to train with. So the cream will go to the top clubs and then they have to play the smaller clubs and the competition is poor. It gets better beyond the 18 year olds but at 15, 16 and 17 United don't have a good workout against the teams in the regional leagues.

United tend to concentrate on teaching the younger lads good habits and develop skills. Other clubs who don't have such talented players concentrate on power and fitness and aggression.

Tournaments have the added advantage of having the boys together for a few days and they play against sides with different philosophies for youth development.

In general, up until age 18, I don't pay too much attention to results. It's performances, rate of development and attitude that you look for. Someone like Welbeck or Macheda or Petrucci look different class. They play the game at their speed and that's when you know that they have a future. Other lads can get by without that skill. The two Neville's, for example, weren't blessed with an abundance of skill but their attitudes and energy levels were right and they made good careers for themselves.

The reserves are neither one thing nor the other now.

As for the look on the da Silva's faces. That appears to be their natural look. It's there during the game, afterwards getting onto the bus, at the photo sessions, everywhere.

Brian Taylor, I can't really say about Manucho. I was just offering a possible reason. After we scored it wasn't worth bringing on another forward but why he didn't come on before, I don't know. You'd need to interrogate SAF.

roger of norway, I think the formation was, in part, designed to allow Anderson to get into the box more in the hope that he'd break his duck.

Marca or wot?

Anders... break his duck? he need to work on the cow's backside first......that's if it gets out of the BARN......or puts it Banjo down !!!

Balders, have you run out of medication?