Urawa v United: Player ratings

Stuart Mathieson

July 17, 2007

Van der Sar: Won't be happy with first goal 5

Brown: Solid enough opening to his campaign 6

Ferdinand: Not much opposition meant a comfortable workout 6

Vidic: Didn’t shut down scorer for opening goal but otherwise a stroll 6

Evra: Brazilian Ponte gave him tough start to pre-season 6

Ronaldo: Gave Tokyo crowd their money's worth 8

Fletcher: Facing a tough battle for games this term but the goal did his case no harm 6

Carrick: Had a few shots and some decent passes 6

Giggs: Some notes to newcomers that he’s still got a lot left 6

Scholes: Twilight years at Sunderland? You’re having a laugh 8

Rooney: Impressive and powerful start to the new season 8

Substitutes

Evans: (Ferdinand 45) Done for Urawa second goal 5

Simpson: (Vidic 45) Few tricky moments 5

Silvestre: (Evra 45) Mixed bag for the French defender 5

Smith: (Giggs 68) Only time for a few touches 5

O'Shea: (Carrick 68) No real time to impress 5

NOT USED: Kuszczak, Heaton, Bardsley

Articles

Urawa Red Diamonds 2 United 2

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Steve, Glossop (17/07/2007 at 15:21)

Sounds like Carrick was his usual dynamic self. Bring on OH ASAP!

Gerry, Glastonbury (17/07/2007 at 15:22)

That's as good an eleven that we put out in the premiership at times last season so Urawa did well to get a draw. Can't take the result too seriously though as I'm sure there were a few cob webs blown away.
Scholsie with another 8 - nothing changes does it?
Nice to see Evra fit as he's going to be some player if he progresses still further.
Don't knock Fletcherino or O'Shea too much - they did a grand job for us when we were wobbling with all those injuries and played a full part in our league success.

Mick, Dublin (17/07/2007 at 15:41)

Yeah, drop Carrick immediately, he only got a 6! Drop Giggs, Rio and Vidic while you're at it, they all got the same mark too! Oh, hold on a minute...

RCH, Salford (17/07/2007 at 16:40)

No need to drop anyone, just stop with the idea of Darren as a winger! Did we really need him on the right for the whole game?? Giggs and Ronnie out wide, Scholes pushing forward, Fletch and Carrick sat deeper surely would have upped the tempo and lifted the crowd in the 1st half? You could hear a pin drop.

Lee , Heywood, Heywood (17/07/2007 at 17:30)

Mick I havent seen the game yet but I do expect more from Carrick this season most of last season was a six from him. He didnt grab enough games by the scruff of the kneck. Regardless of last seasons form like any player at United he must perform next season.

OT in Connecticut (17/07/2007 at 18:11)

Can see we're all happy to be Champions. It's a pre-season game guys.

Steve, Glossop (17/07/2007 at 23:22)

Call me old fashioned but if a company paid alot of money for a guy threatening my position I'd have to up my game if I wanted to stay. All good for squad competition. I thought this pressure was one of the justifications for huge salarys? I know it's just a friendly I'm just making a point that the stakes are high.

Alias Smith, over the moon (17/07/2007 at 23:42)

Seems to me Carrick was in fact one of our better performers! Still, first game of pre-season and some people are on his back already. Suddenly, the summer break seems to have been very short....

Balders, Tier 2 Stretford (18/07/2007 at 09:26)

good to see "a mixed bag from the frenchman" - what else do you expect. Oh, yeah, there'll be more & more & .....

btw - was it a mixed horse(head)nose bag ???

chris, oxford (18/07/2007 at 09:36)

Lets hope OH is fit for the next game so JOS isn't let loose in midfield, think it's a little harsh to criticise players after the first game of pre season. I blame the manager and think he should go ;-)

JonyB-), North Staffs (18/07/2007 at 09:37)

seriously lee - Scholes did very little more but gets an 8; as always the MEN as its favourates and will stick rigidly with them!!

Lee , Heywood, Heywood (18/07/2007 at 09:59)

JohnyB Alias etc I dont want to get into a huge debate as I really dont care about this game but Scholes did more than enough last season for me to say play the same way this year and weve got a good chance. Carrick was simply ok. Eventually he must do more. Alias your argument that he was one of our better players doesnt really matter (had this before with Fletch at Portsmouth) its the culmination of many games not one game taken alone that leads to calls of "another 6". Watched a re-run of the 5-0 derby on Mutv the other day and while Cantona was brilliant and Kanchelskis got a hattrick the best player on the field by a mile was Ince as he was week in week out for his last two seasons at United. He took the game by the scruff of the kneck and dominated he was unbelievably good. I wont accept ticking along in the CM for United. Quietly effective isnt an option for me there.Due to when I was born I have only ever seen Robson,Ince,Keane in our midfeild regularly so I might be spoiled but none of them just ticked things along. I repeat again that for me personally Carrick has a big step up to make this season. Last season was OK but this season must be much better and after that he must be great.

JonyB-), North Staffs (18/07/2007 at 10:29)

Lee, I fully expect Carrick to be no different than he as been and if that leads toanother EPL championship then i'll have nothing to complain about! My comment related to the MEN. None of the players performed consistently over the 90mins. Some players raised their game for short periods, others like Ronaldo and Rooney for longer periods uring the second half. It was Giggs superb pass that led to Ronaldos goal, and carrick who put Fletchinho opportunity on a plate.... Giggs and Carrick get 6?? Who did Scholes setup or score?? This isnt anti-Scholes or pro giggs and carrick, after all it'll be Pro-Utd all the ways. This is anti MEN bias. They have their favourates as we all do - but they're supposed to be unbiased if wwe are to judge these scores as nothing more than lip service. And the already negative Carrick comments shows that the bias is working. Carrick won't ever take the game by the "scruff of the neck". Like you i was brought up on Robbo & Moses then the rest. But before that we didnt have that player. And great players like Coppell, Muhren, Wilkins and Mclaroy didnt do that. It didnt mean they where any poorer - just their job was different. Whilst i expect Carrick to improve, i rather think you'll remain disappointed if you expect Robbo or Keane. But i'll continue to support the reds and Carrick!!

TMUF, Manchester (18/07/2007 at 10:54)

Lee if your'e gonna complain about Carrick for not being like the players you have just mentioned then you WILL complain every game he plays in as that isn't his style or role and SAF seems perfectly happy to accept s I think you should too!

Mick, Dublin (18/07/2007 at 11:55)

Lee, it's a pity that you won't accept "quietly effective" because you're never gonna get any more than that from Carrick and you're gonna spend the next few years tearing your hair out. If you're waiting for Carrick to suddenly turn into the next Keano or Ince you've got a long wait on your hands.

Personally, I have no problem with "quietly effective". We can rely on the like of Rooney and Ronaldo for fireworks, while Carrick et al keep things ticking over in the middle of the park.

This approach worked just fine last season and if ain't broke, don't fix it.

Lee , Heywood, Heywood (18/07/2007 at 12:22)

He doesnt have to do the same things as Robson Ince and Keane but he can still dominate and take a game by the scruff of its kneck. Players like Dejan Savecavic (not sure how its spelt) Bernd Schuster, Zidane were not like any of those players but all ran rings round our midfeild at OT in front of my very eyes. Becks ran the game from CM in the CL final despite not being Roy Keane and Scholes has done this for years. I am not talking about a type of player I am talking about taking control of games and being the one who says "right the game is going to run through me, I want the ball, I will give it make a run get it back and then split the defence etc etc" Fabrigas did this against us at OT at 18 years of age last season without being a Keane Ince or Robson. I could go on with examples of Carrick type players who do MORE in games than just tick over. He MUST do more over the next few years regardless of what we win. You cant just credit the league to him because we signed only him. Like I said not intrested in Pre Season friendlies but all players must do better consistantly than 6 out of 10 at United particularly first choice CM's.

RCH, Salford (18/07/2007 at 12:30)

I think we know what kind of player Carrick is and if we're perfectly honest last year he was not the player we truely needed last summer. As it is now we have bagged OH to support, hopefully we'll have players out wide faster and more skillful than Fletch and we'll get more from Carrick and play to his and others strengths. The tedious thing about this whole arguement is some people cannot except that a few on here think he did ok in his 1st season and wasn't some revelation by going on and on about games like 7-1 against Roma a game where he shined and supposedly backed up the opinion he made some huge impact all season forgetting the areas where he lacked.

Birdy, Ireland (18/07/2007 at 13:16)

Lee excellent post

Steve, Glossop (18/07/2007 at 14:01)

'Quietly efficient' didn't win the title & if that was all that was required Alex needn't & wouldn't have spent 18M. He bought Carrick clearly cos he thinks he's special. Well let's hope he becomes that.

Alias Smith, over the moon (18/07/2007 at 14:33)

Lee/Birdy, on the subject of away form in Europe, wouldn't you agree that a high proportion of knock-out ties are decided on away goals? Logic would therefore suggest that we SHOULD go gung-ho and try to score as many goals in the away leg as possible, while doing our utmost not to concede at home. A reversal of the current stategy if you like.

I realise of course that I may have just contradicted all my previous comments on this subject! Luckily, however, life is not like that and there must be a reason why no respected coach has tried this approach.

Lee , Heywood, Heywood (18/07/2007 at 15:15)

Alias I agree with your theory however I think that is EXACTLY how a lot of clubs aproach Two legged ties. Thinking that we need to score away. Even a two one defeat away is a better result for the away team. I also think were better off playing away first. Had we played Milan away first even at 3-0 we might have got through !!

Birdy, Ireland (18/07/2007 at 15:47)

Alias you may have a point there. As Lee said, I think some teams do already look at the ties that way. We've learned the hard way that a nil nil away from home isnt as good a result as it first seems. The golden rule when playing at home in Europe is to not concede, so therefore the away team should be well aware of the importance of a goal. Hopefully we get Tevez, and with the attacking players we would then have i would fancy us to go to away to any ground in Europe and score, attitude permitting obviously

Alias Smith, over the moon (18/07/2007 at 20:04)

Lee/Birdy, which clubs are you thinking of who approach two-legged ties that way? Any evidence it works?

Birdy, Ireland (19/07/2007 at 09:04)

Alias did you watch AC score 2 against us at Old Trafford last season!! Or Madrid hit 3 a few yrs back? Or Porto's late away goal knocking us out? I'm not suggesting teams go gung ho away from home, but we've been stung by away goals often enough to know that a nil nil away from home isnt the great result we think it is, and for a naturally attacking side, setting out our stall in such a cautious fashion doesnt really suit us anyway

Alias Smith, over the moon (19/07/2007 at 10:04)

Birdy, I don't think Milan's 2 goals at OT last season were examples of a gung-ho approach, more poor defending on our part.

Of course, in the second leg away from home when you need a goal to avoid elimination, any team will be forced to push forward, as Porto did in the game you refer to. Porto under Mourinho could never have been descibed as gung-ho or even attacking however, home or away!

No, what I was getting at was whether any coach/team have ever successfully adopted this as a consistent approach - I certainly can't think of any but you and Lee suggested there had been.

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