All clubs have a handful of idiots and its well possible that there were some reds provoking trouble last night, but its hard to look at the pictures and draw any conclusion other than the Italian police were disgraceful and assualted many innocent supporters.

To save the club's reputation, there should be no more officially sponsored overseas trips for fans. It is just not worth it.
English fans will always be targetted, particularly in Italy, because of Heysel, (Thank you, Liverpool!)and there will always be just enough nutters in our travelling support to give local police and neanderthals an excuse to wade in.
Sooner or later UEFA will tune into the anti-English bias around Europe and, rather than lay the blame on others woeful lack of organisational skills or self control, will do the easy thing and blame (and possibly ban )us. In UEFA competitions all the trouble revolves around English teams, they will say - that is where the core of the problem is.
We will start to see this next week when the club, Man U that is, gets a heavy fine and warning while Roma and the Roman police get away with their incompetance and violence.

I quite agree Django. There will always be some mindless idiots that will spoil it for the majority of the decent Reds but those scenes from the Police last night are absolutely unbelievable as well as disgraceful! And there was their Mayor saying that the letter sent to the travelling supporters was un called for and untrue! All Football fanns from Manchester are welcome to the city. Welcome to a Beating from the Police more like! Maybe the letter failed to miss off a No Go Area as being the stadium itself. United were right to issue the warnings, following the trouble that 'Boro had with them, the Policeman that was killed when Seria A had to be suspended and all the trouble that we had in the last round. And last night, that decision was vindicated! I bet United regret now, Not appealing against the decision in the last round for the blame put on the Fans. Becuase UEFA, will undoubtedly look at that and incorrectly assume, United had trouble last time and again this time, therfore United = Trouble! Then throw in the 'Boro incident and ALL English Clubs = Trouble! Let's just Ban them!
English football will be thrown back in the Dark Ages again and fall behind, just as we're getting to the level where we can attract the top players again and boast being one of the Best Leagues in the World!

Django, I also fear that Uefa will take the easy way out and blame United or english fans, but the fact of the matter is that Italian teams have some of the most disgraceful fans in football. A Policeman killed only 2 months ago by rioting fans. Thousands of Lazio fans protesting against the signing of Thuram, a black player, in the end forcing the club to dissolve the transfer. Lazio fans (and players) hanging disgusting tributes to Arkan, leader of the Tigers and one of the main protagonists of ethnic cleansing in Bosnia. Inter fans banned from matches only last year. Roma fans the same. Middlesborough and Liverpool fans stabbed in Rome. United fans pelted by Milan fans 2 years ago. United fans manhandled by police in Turin. United fans beaten to a pulp last night. Now how often does this happen in England? Granted, there is still violence in football in England, but nowhere near the level as seen in Italy. And granted violence follows english clubs around europe, but examining the situations in a european context negates the fact that the real violence and brutality continues to occur in Italy long after English clubs have left. But do we really expect Uefa to make a sound judgement?

Even i msut say those pictures are disturbing what the italian police did to united fans.

There's been a lot written regarding last nights incident, and older issues like support of Arkan etc, so I won't comment on that, just wanted to add two points:

a) This is a stadium where the home fans get to do as they want. Lazio ultras police their part of the stadium on their own, thus making it possible to throw a scooter from the stands in addition to bringing racist/sickening banners supporting genocide.

b) Look at the picture in this article, and other articles regarding the subject. Does anyone else react when seeing someone in jeans and a bomber jacket? clubbing down fans? The scenes last night were sickening, and I'm just starting to wonder whether some ultras has infiltrated/been allowed to fight alongside the police. I know it's a strong accusation, and probably, wrong, but I just don't understand why someone wearing clothes more similar to the ultras style than the carabineri uniform is out there banging skulls in.

It's easy to blame others and bury your head in the sand ..... & mark my words, this what uefa will do. It's the easy way out & they'll take it. On the issue of last night, why were the thugs dressed as riot police only on the united side of the partition....... were they only ever going to attack, sorry calmly apprehend one set of fans !!!!! surely not ? you can nearly hear them telling their oh so brave stories down the cop shop today.......Scum of the earth !

city fan in peace,i too agree with django.it seems that you can get away with almost anything in europe because it's seen as the norm,but,when english fans are involved then the authorities threaten to throw the book at us.you only have to look at the ridiclous fines handed out for racist chanting in spain and italy.

If everyone sends an email deploring the violence to

info@uefa.com

maybe they will start to understand the gravity of the situation

The Italian Security forces treat(ed) the English fans as if they were slaves or mere animals! They thought they were back in the Colisseum of old - baying for blood and violence!!!

Yes you might have known the corrupt Italian Politicians have blamed the trouble on the United fans,they suspect a 75 yr old grandad as the ring leader,he refused to move from his seat whilst be batoned by two stormtroopers.

Have just studied some of the photos from Rome. Why are some of the riot police wearing DENIMS????? Could it be that they were just Roma Ultras in conveniently donated uniforms, helmets and truncheons?

Like all foreign police, Spanish, Italian, Germans they are aware of English Fans behaviour in the past but that have all changed. They will overact , why, because they are the one who are scared and cowardly try to provoke the fans to react. So they have an excuse to react under their uniform.

When evaluating the Roma incident please do not forget the immense hurt that is still born in Italy today with regard to Liverpool/ Heyshel. Juve. being iconic and probably better supported than the Azzuri meant pain and grief were felt in all corners of the country. Even in the remotest corners of Italy you will still see poignant, AND newly painted messages "Merdre etc" still keeping the event very much alive. Also - the arm of the "Police" in the Olimpico was not your local, friendly Polizia but a crack unit of the Carabinere -(like the SAS/ SBS in the UK! They would be just itching for a gentle workout! The colour of the helmet is the clue. They are not ALL City supporters in disguise!

One point to make - the United fans had Roma fans on both sides of them but the trouble only occurred at one side. If it was United fans that were intent on trouble then surely it would have occured on both sides of the United enclosure.

Hello all Mancunian people and not,
I m italian and i live in Manchester since the 2003. Im really surprised about what i read in this Blog... u are saying stupid things about the italian people not concernig the football. I ve been a lot of time to watch the United in the old trafford and I ve never saw funs drunk or stoned. Why in Italy the majority of them where drunk, stoned, etc, etc? Why in England the supporters are always polite and respectful with the law? Why some people do that just when they are outside of the country??
Thanks a lot...and even if i m italian i support United!Cheers Alberto

Ref Stuart Malcolm, To equate the Italian police with our SAS, SBS and even our police is a disgraceful slur. I,ve never heard of SAS troopers beating up women and children with batons. If the police in the UK behaved like this there would be hell to pay.
I,ve worked with Italians, not the bravest of people.
By the way weren,t we supposed to be celebrating the EU 50 year birthday. The actions of so-called fellow Europeans at football matches, especially their police forces show this to be a hollow celebration.
Utd, Spurs and Rangers are right to kick up a fuss however to expect help from this government will be in vain because Britain under Blair is a humiliated country.

I agree with some of the comments in the column particularly the ones that Italian police and grounds are inadequate. The ex policeman was correct Italian Caribanierie are out of control and I know from experience having seen them in action at Napoli. Why do you think they take off their official numbers from their uniforms before the batton charge begins? The other point raised was correct why are FIFA still allowing teams with non seating stadia to compete at the highest level? The other point is that post Heysel fans from the UK cannot expect to travel to Italy, cause trouble and not be taken seriously. Look at the relationship between the English and Turkish after the Leeds lads were killed, within some sections of support divisions run and will run deep for decades.

I do however agree that British fans who travel abroad need to clean up their act and as a nation we still have a huge amount of the great unwashed who follow all British clubs, that includes Scottish and Welsh.

It is time for FIFA to kick the Italians out of Europe and then maybe they will take stock of the current mess that is Italian policing and soccer. Probably an education course and some basic training for Italian police, if a person is sitting in his seat next to him and watching the game then leave him alone don't smash their heads in with battons. The Italians could take a few lessons from British coppers

Now Now Sean _- I am merely pointing out that in status or aligned terms that the "gentlemen" in the Azzuri Blue helmets twirling Batons in the Olimpico were a crack Military unit. That is what the Carabinere is!
I have NOT seen our Military in the guise of the SAS or such on service in UK stadia.(other than as Bandsmen!)But then the UK and Italy are miles apart Culturally and Politically! Even Cameron on a good day is not that far right!

Once again its the English fans being made mugs of by some scumbag police force . It is nothing new, its been going on for over 20 years & nothing is ever done about it apart from the football authorities blaming "The English " as always. Italy, Holland, Germany ,Turkey & Spain in particular have been diabolical & disgusting to travelling fans year in & year out. Yet what punishment do any of them recieve ? Nothing ! Its English teams that carry the can ALWAYS ! Now there is the added threat of Platini ( hates everything to do with our football) running FIFA, God help us. Its time for the powerfull clubs to speak out & say once & for all " enough is enough . What goes on in the afore mentioned countries would not be tolerated in our game. EUFA & FIFA would crucify us & condemn us without hesitation , yet they go unpunished. Disgraceful !We need to speak out forcefully & demand equality in the tratment of football fans everywhere. Do we have anyone with the guts to do so ?

I get what you are getting at Stuart - they are not just police but "Special police". However, given their behaviour i can only equate it to "Special" schools ;-). Do not try and equate them with the best and most experienced special forces units on the planet. One thing for sure, active SAS/SBS will not be brought into crowd control situations other than perhaps in security of Royalty or the PM as they have much more important things to do. They may train special police units worldwide in CQB and bodyguard tactics but I cannot imagine they are teaching Italian police how to repeatedly hit an already unconscious United fan with a truncheon or Spanish police how to beat up a disabled Spurs fan. On the topic though I would like Blair to send in some SAS undercover in the future with the requisite language skills to report first hand intelligence on their true motives rather than what the habitually-lying latin politicians and police chiefs say. It was quite clearly a set-up in revenge to 'one of their own' getting hospitalised in scuffles before the game.