Police to quiz gay row bishop

Nicola Dowling

November 10, 2003

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ROW: Bishop of Chester Dr Peter Forster

THE Bishop of Chester is to be interviewed by police after he said gay people should seek medical help.

Dr Peter Forster, one of the most senior bishops in the country whose diocese stretches as far as Stockport and Dukinfield, said some gays should "reorientate" themselves with the help of the medical profession.

He is one of 23 senior bishops. He is a member of the House of Lords and is well known for his conservative views.

At the weekend a complaint was made to police that his remarks - made to his local newspaper and reported by the Manchester Evening News on Saturday - had caused offence and could allegedly be described as "hate crime".

Today a police spokesman said: "We have received a complaint. We will examine the issues raised in the complaint and speak to the reporter and the bishop before considering any further action."

At the weekend gay activists branded his words dangerous and offensive.

The row comes soon after the consecration of the Anglican Church's first openly-gay bishop, Gene Robinson, in the United States.

The American bishop - who is in a long-term gay relationship - took up his new job at the beginning of this month.

The appointment - and that of Dr Jeffrey John, a celibate homosexual who was proposed as Bishop of Reading but who later resigned - threatens to split the church.

The Bishop of Chester said: "Some people who are primarily homosexual can reorientate themselves.

"I would encourage them to consider that as an option but I would not set myself up as a specialist on the subject - that's in the area of psychiatric health."

The bishop will be questioned under the provisions of the Public Order Act of 1986 with covers race, faith, religion or disability or sexuality.

Today Martin Reynolds, spokesman for the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, said he welcomed the police investigation.

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Julie Smith, Whitefield (10/11/2003 at 12:57)

I do not see how the Bishops comments can be considered as "hate crime". Or that the following comments are of any substance merely paranoia:- "At the weekend gay activists branded his words dangerous and offensive."

I consider myself a 'well informed' mother, and whilst the gay community want free speech ....I do too! Although I have to admit to feeling intimidated by the gay community. I feel that if this bishops comments are inflammatory then there are many books that should be banned too!

I picked up a copy of 'bringing up BOYS' by Dr James Dobson, and feel that it is rather excellent. Dr Dobson was being interviewed by Larry King on Satellite TV whilst I was in America - I thought that what he had to say was most reasonable, and I must point out - that what Dr Dobson suggested was along the lines of Bishop Forster.
P.117 of this book says - 'Psychologist George Rekers says there is considerable evidence that change of sexual orientation is possible - with or without psychiatric intervention. He wrote "In a sizable number of cases ....the gender-identity disorder resolves fully" etc...etc...

Should this book be banned? You can pick up a copy in Waterstones!

I do not wish any of the gay community any harm whatsoever, it saddens me greatly if any suffer due their being gay.

I think that the media have blown this topic well out of proportion.

Here's a new word - HETERO-PHOBIA!

John Pinters, Radcliffe (10/11/2003 at 17:30)

I would have thought the police had plenty on their hands with the racism that has been discovered among their own. What next? will the bishop face prosecution on every moral issues he chooses to address! He has a duty as a teacher of the Christian faith to speak the truth in love, even when that goes against present trends.

Rev. Dr. John Wilson B.Min. MA PhD, Tyldesley (10/11/2003 at 18:04)

With regards to the article on Page 2 of MEN 10/11/03 I must congratulate the Bishop of Chester's stance with regards to homosexuality. I find it appaling that "Gay" people can complain and police interview a man because he speaks the views of littlerally millions of Christians world wide. If his remarks are seen as offensive the I can assure you as a Christian I find offensive the use of the phrase "Gay Christians", this is a Biblical contradiction in terms. Mankind is the only being on the planet to behave in this manner as it is not natural. The Scriptures make it clear that such behaviour is an abomination to the Lord Jesus. Not just the Old Testament but in the New Testament in Romans chapters 1 and 2 we are left in no doubt to the view of God. The Church of England and its doctrine no longer represent the Biblical view of Christianity as they continue to change morals to the whim of the Government and pressure from the world. I praise the stance of the Bishoop of Chester and agree with him whole heartedly. Scripture is clesr that persecution will come to those who stand for righteousness.
Rev J Wilson
Tyldesley Top Chapel
Tyldesley

ovind benest, Kristiansand (10/11/2003 at 19:38)

The bishop was somewhat unfortunate with the words he used, but it is well known that many gay people who are highly motivated for changing their sexual orientation, have succeeded in doing this. Anyone interested in the subject ought to read the two interesting articles at www.narth.com/docs/attemptstomodify.html and www.narth.com/docs/evidencefound.html
The two articles shatter the myth that sexual orientation is something unchangeable.

JM BUCKLEY, OLDHAM (10/11/2003 at 19:44)

I do not see how the comments of the Bishop can be regarded as "hate crime".
It is absolutely typical of the state of our once great country that the police are to
" examine a complaint " against a man who has exercised his right of free speech to express his personal view. Why aren't the police doing the same to the cleric in London who has been exhorting anti -British feeling for some months now? No! He is afforded protection to preach his extremist and racist views and who pays for this protection? The taxpayer! It is time the Law stopped being such an ass and for the people who are offende by the Bishop's views to grow a thicker skin. Let the police get on with the task of protecting the law-abiding majority of ordinary folk and stop pandering to the whoms of the minority - of whatever conviction!

Jan, Colorado, USA (10/11/2003 at 19:53)

It is so sad to read the news about the blantant accusations against the Bishop of Chester. He obviously is not speaking in terms of hatred, but of genuine concern and passing God's love and he is not only doing this as a priest, but also as a person of God. This (the police investigation) is a double speak and I hope and pray the accusation will be dropped. The gay community needs to respect our views as much we would yours. Could be revenge on the Gay community part?

Piya, Manchester (10/11/2003 at 20:47)

Good job too. Talk to him, lock him up and throw away the key. Offensive, uncaring, good for nothing!

David Dodds, Los Angeles, California (10/11/2003 at 21:57)

As a brit living abroad, I have to say that I chuckled at Peter Forster's comment. I say chuckled, because it is so beyond ridiculous, coming from one who purports to be educated (and a man of God?). I suspect he's made himself look rather foolish, because there's a wealth of research out there supporting the notion that being gay isn't a choice (as one would choose to go out shopping, for instance); it's genetic. And the myth that gay men are "victims" is risible. I for one am perfectly well-adjusted, thank you very much, and I don't need anyone's acceptance or approval, I'm just telling you the way it is. Why on earth would anyone want to be re-orientated? (Anyway, hasn't that been shown to be ineffective?)
And Julie Smith shouldn't be intimidated by the "Gay Community," you're a heterosexual female, and a mother to-boot. You'll be just fine. And you really shouldn't take for gospel all that you see on American cable. And finally, "heterophobia" is not a new word, by the way...

Annie, Chorlton (10/11/2003 at 22:39)

Julie my dear, I have nothing but compassion for you, and I really do hope that, with the aid of some reputable doctors, you may be relieved of the burden of this nonsense you have been given. Yes, I DO believe that you can be "turned".

Feeling "oppressed" is commonly known as bigotry, I'm afraid.

The gay community bites back these days, because they have, for many many years, had to take to most appalling violence, ignorance and fear.

It is an established fact that sexuality (NOT gender-identity... that is an entirely different subject... I suggest some research!), is programmed in the womb. You can no more turn someone gay than you can turn some FROM being gay. You can certainly instill a complete denial of their sexuality. Some, I'm sure live their lives, feeling that the daily pressure of denial is worthwhile, given social pressures.

The notion that this is a permanant solution is utter rubbish. Ask any doctor of repute (preferably under the age of 50, since those seem to have a greater understanding of the subject).

Please do not give this ignorant cleric's comments any value. They are born of ignorance, prejudice and a misguided patriarchal responsibility, and have NO basis in fact.

Oliver Warren, Manchester (10/11/2003 at 23:16)

In response to June Smith's comments, I'm blown away by her ridiculous last statement: "Here's a new word HETERO-PHOBIA"

The Bishop's attitude reflects out of date hysteric reactions to any sexuality that isn't straight down the line.

If activists were not to react to such outrageous claims, then they would pas unchallenged in the public view, and may actually be accepted by people such as Ms. Smith.

To then, turn it around and brand it 'heterophobia' is frankly exactly the kind of reaction that demonstrates that more education of people like Ms Smith is utterly necessary.

Steve, Bolton (10/11/2003 at 23:17)

The bishop's remarks are borne out by the findings of several researchers. For example, Masters and Johnson's study of the results of therapy with 67 homosexual men and women who expressed a desire to revert to a heterosexual orientation proved that such change (over a five-year follow up period) is indeed possible. The bishop has researched this subject - his critics apparently have not done so or have chosen to disregard any scientific findings that they dislike.

David Hey, Manchester (10/11/2003 at 23:58)

I understand that the police have now backed down, having been told that they do not have a legal leg to stand on, but with considerable bad grace. It is deplorable that the police should allow themselves to be duped into being used as an agent of the persecution of Christians ( a sport which was outlawed around AD 316 a believe). It is clear from the bishops quoted remarks that he has a deep pastoral concern for the people of his diocese of all genders and orientations. Hatred can only be found by taking his words out of context and twisting them as has been done in some headlines I have seen. We should thank God for his ministry amongst us and his faithfulness to the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

Ray, Stockport (11/11/2003 at 10:00)

Annie my dear, I have nothing but compassion for you, and I really do hope that when you turn 50 you will come to appreciate that prejudice and ignorance are not necessarily concomitant with advancing years. Fight your corner by all means, but don't allow your obvious ageism to contaminate your argument.

Oliver Warren, Manchester (11/11/2003 at 11:12)

Regarding Ovind Benest's 'shattering evidence' that he references below from narth.com, all these articles 'prove' is that if someone wants to deny something strongly enough they can convince themselves and others can help convince them, that what is true is not. There is not a scrap of evidence that any genuine change has occured.
I'd suggest that people start looking at the society we live in and how it needs to adapt to make people to feel comfortable with their totally unharmful desires.
And to the Rev Dr. John Wilson also speaking below, there are other creatures on the planet who have homosexual relations, one in particular being a pair of swans that was well publicised a few years ago. But were there not, there are also no other creatures who build moments to and worship their 'god', so surely building churches and praying is as 'unnatural' as homosexuality.

Dr Thaddeus Irvine, Londonderry, N Ireland (11/11/2003 at 11:26)

I thought this was a disgrace to have one ?christian? (Martin Reynolds) welcome legal action against another Christian (The Bishop of Chester), which is totally out of step with biblical teachings. The bible makes it clear that it is right to love the sinner but to hate/condemn the sin and, biblically, homosexuality is a sin! Slowly, via secualrism, we see Georg Orwell's 1984 becoming a reality!!

EW, Czechia (11/11/2003 at 11:33)

I can't believe my eyes. The poor man was accused of hate crime for saying this? Incredible. I also went through a lot of articles on homosexuality and there are studies indicating that some people who were not happy about their orientation were able to function heterosexually (as the already mentioned study of Masters and Johnson), whereas others were not. M+J also did not talk about "conversion" only about "satisfactory functioning" for the persons involved.
Sadly, independent research on this theme is impossible these days, because gay lobby starts hysterically yelling whenever the subject is mentioned (see this case) and, of course, groups with religious backgrounds are too in favor of "changeable lifestyle" to be fully trustworthy
. :-((

Dr Thaddeus Irvine, Londonderry, N Ireland (11/11/2003 at 11:42)

I was taken aback by the remarks of both Annie from Chorlton and David Dodds from LA, California. When I read expressions such as, "programmed in the womb" and "genetic" of a particular 'nature' I had to ask myself if this could be an equally viable defence for paedophiles, serial killers, rapists and personality-disordered individuals?"Excuse me, Guv, it wasn't my fault; it was the genes made me do it!"

Dr Thaddeus Irvine, Londonderry, N Ireland (11/11/2003 at 11:52)

I was interested in Richard Kirker's comment:

"Dr Forster's prejudices will not be solved by a visit to the doctor, nor will lesbian and gay people go away and get 'cured' to help him live with them"

Richard Kirker, Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement

He never spoke a truer word! It is only through the power of Jesus that anything can be achieved - which kind of negates Mr Kirker's movement!?

Dr Gary Sweeten, Cincinnati, USA (30/11/2003 at 14:16)

Is it a hate crime to say that depressed people can change or that alcoholics can be cured? I know of numerous former gay men and women for I have treated them before and after they were healed. I also know many who were depressed or anxious or bitter but who were healed by therapy or conversion.

Hate means that we want to harm the group but hope means we want good for a group. I want nothing but good for gays. Joy, happiness and good times so hope for change is not hate.

Andy, Wythenshawe (01/12/2003 at 23:44)

I'd like to know where these 2 'so called' doctors gained their titles, was it from 'DOCTORS R US'.

Their ignorance is unbelievable, G.Sweeten is comparing someones sexuality with an illness, didn't a certain german/austrian with a 'strange' moustache think the same way.

Just to enlighten our irish , ermmm doctor? , there is evidence that links criminal behaviour to dysfunctional parental upbringing, and there is also evidence that proves homosexuality is genetically formed, and to an extent affected by very early social events in a childs life.

Lets face it, these two individuals are biggots, and should be treated with the distain they deserve.

Dr Thaddeus Irvine, Londonderry (UK) (22/01/2006 at 20:27)

I had the opportunity to revisit this site and was disappointed at the personal attack 'Andy' felt the need to wage rather than look at the situation as it presented itself.
For 'Andy's' benefit, just a few corrections:
1) Londonderry is part of the UK - Britain, not Ireland!
2)Before a persona credentials are criticized, it's better to establish exactly what that person is claiming. Does 'Andy' visit his GP and ask if his GP's credentials are from 'DOCTORS R US'? I'll wager not. But, I guess ad hominem attacks (that's personal attacks, 'Andy') are the reserve and privilege of the ill-informed.
3) It's in very poor taste to compare another contributor to nazis.
4)Also, it wasn't that long ago when Homosexuality was labelled - officially - as a psychosexual disorder, by the establishment.
5) It's interesting that 'Andy' claims that there is substantiated evidence that "links criminal behaviour to dysfunctional parental upbringing, and there is also evidence that proves homosexuality is genetically formed, and to an extent affected by very early social events in a childs life." Does 'Andy' make reference to it via hyperlink and offer to debate it?
6) Rather that discuss htis, which is the point of this column, he descends yet again to puerile name-calling. By the way, 'Andy' the word is bigot (only one 'g'). Also, 'Andy' the word is 'disdain' and has a 'd' not a 't'.

In conclusion, our hero 'Andy' appears to have a n extremely limited association with of knowledge of - Geography, politics, English or Genetic Research.

I guess those who oppose Homosexuality (not the person) shouldn't feel too threatened by 'Andy' and those of his ilk.

I've left my e-mail for those who felt inclined to discuss the issue rather than just wage war. That includes you, too, 'Andy'.

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