Congestion charging: The big debate

January 24, 2007

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DETAILS of a massive congestion charge scheme for Greater Manchester have been revealed by the M.E.N.

Transport chiefs plan to charge motorists to use roads on and around 15 of the most heavily-used "corridors" spreading out from the city centre across the entire county.

The proposals have been drawn up to try to close a funding gap to allow the Metrolink "Big Bang" to go ahead by tapping into a é1bn Government fund for jam-busting schemes.

The amount paid would depend on what time the route was used and for what distance, with those travelling at peak times facing the highest fees.

No price has been set but it is understood any charging regime would be cheaper than London, where motorists pay é8 a day to enter a zone in and around the city centre. Sources close to the project suggested the peak charge could be é3 for every scanner passed, with up to two scanners on each corridor.

It could cost commuters around é2,000 a year.

Find out more about the scheme via the links below and tell us what you think of the plans.

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Download our map of the congestion charge zones. (3.02MB)

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david, Irlam (24/01/2007 at 13:10)

I am in favour on congestion charging BUT

I have tried to use the trains but according to The PTE there is not enoigh capacity to run trains into Piccadilly like the used to so Only one train a day runs to the main railway station and one back by differnet companies I tried using it for 2 months and it was on time once yes once in 40 journeys sometimes it wascancelled once 1 1/4 hours late It is also twice the petrol cost but I would pay that it th eservice worked

Trams I have to drive to Eccles (and the trams will never reach Irlam) and then it takes 45minutes - Buses - you have to be kidding.

So The option Change jobs. Congestion charging is just the ticket to get people out of the rut of commuting so it has to be a good idea.

Linda Griffiths, Manchester (24/01/2007 at 13:25)

I read with dismay the news about the proposed congestion charges and I don't drive to work and use public transport on a daily basis.

I was particularly annoyed to read that the money raised will be funding the extension to the metrolink when the service does not run to where I live and there are no plans for it to do so.

Secondly, how will a already struggling public transport system be able to cope with the increased numbers of passengers. The buses are already full and you have the stand up on a regular basis. I will envisage that you will be lucky to be able to get on a bus if this goes through. Additionally, the buses are not regular and the prices are increasing way above the rate of inflation.

Thirdly, should it not be taken into account when setting the levy that the majority of people in this region are earning nothing like the salaries that are earned in London and for charges to be made in line with London charges does seem to be unfair and unjust.

Finally, what will happen to the main cities? they will become ghosts towns. People won't be able to come in to town because it will be too expensive to do so. In addition people will have less disposal income to spend in the shops or on entertainment because so much of their income will be spent on the new charges.

Hollie Jackson, Saddleworth (24/01/2007 at 15:56)

I do not drive, but I get the train to Manchester nearly every day. I have to pay Â£5.65 before 10am, so it would probably be cheaper to drive in even with the congestion charges.
Public transport is not upto scratch so problems will only get worse, and charges will go up more and more.
In the past month alone train fares have gone up 25p. What will happen to congestion charges after a 'trial period'? not Â£6, but Â£8, or even Â£10?

susiejay, manchester (24/01/2007 at 16:16)

So we pay our tax and insurance to use our cars and now we are being told to pay yet again for driving into the City. It wont be long before we are being told to leave the cars on our drives full stop! Why not get rid of prople not paying tax and insurance, that would create less congestion on the roads. I strongly object to being tracked as to my whereabouts, what about my human rights? Have these people putting forward the idea of using public transport ever used it themselves? The last time i went on the tram i was crammed into it, had to strap hang for the whole journey and was thrown from side to side. I then tried the bus which was even worse. There was a moron playing loud music, a mother chatting merrily away on a mobile about rubbish while her children were running wild, two youths smoking even though the drive asked them to stop, and a drunk sitting behind me who kept tapping me on the shoulder asking where he was! No thanks, i shall not be pushed onto public transport until someone can guarantee a comfortable, trouble-free ride.

Roger Bullock, Crumpsall (24/01/2007 at 19:22)

The proposed scheme looks devilishly complicated. At least the London scheme is simple in its working: if you enter the zone during the working day, you have to pay the charge. If the Manchester one is going to be "flexible", as Cllr Leese has suggested, there is massive scope for confusion. Are people going to have to check each day which rules apply?
How are shoppers going to be penalized? A lot of people in our area go into Middleton to shop rather than the city centre, but they would have to travel on a red route.
I object in principle to this further expansion of a Big Brother society, but even on economic grounds there is bound to be an unacceptable administrative cost for all the non-productive personnel who will be needed to run the scheme.

Danny Chan, Manchester (24/01/2007 at 23:14)

"A london-style charging scheme which imposes cost irrespective of time of day....". Reference to Richard Leese's comments in the MEN on page 3 (24th Jan 2007).

He obviously had not done his research correctly! Maybe the leader of Manchester City council should check his facts or turn to page 4 of the MEN where there is a photograph of the London Congestion charging times and hours of operation which clearly state Mon- Fri 7am - 6:30pm.

David Ellison, Didsbury (24/01/2007 at 23:21)

I have to commute by car out of Manchester to every day , due to my company relocating to Birchwood a few years ago . I do this with thousands of other outbound commuters from Manchester on the M56, M6 , M60 and M62 motorways .This is why the regions motorways are so crowded at rush hour .

Why are there no plans to address this long distance commuting to out of town business parks? More business parks are planned in the Warrington area , which will thrive if Manchester introduces these charges and there are no planning controls .

Similarly why are there no plans for congestion charging on the M60 around the Trafford Centre ? Thousand of shoppers do not go to the City any more because of the high car parking charges in the City centre ,but block the motorway to get to the Trafford centre .

Unless these issues are addressed Manchester will be harmed economically as the charges drive people and business out of the City Centre .

The only answer if charging is to come , is to charge cars for motorway use on region wide basis . This would encourage business and jobs to stay in the City and so reduce long distance commuting and car journeys overall .

Pricing access to the City Centre out of peoples reach will not help the environment in the long term , it will spread economic development over a huge area , encouraging car use further . It will harm ordinary working people in the City , whilst the middle class commute ,by car, to the out of town jobs beyond the charging zone .

Danny, Manchester (24/01/2007 at 23:28)

I can understand a congestion charge although I am not in favour of one. What would be a resonable charge? ¿¿3-¿¿5? London started it at ¿¿5, now it is ¿¿8 But Manchester has not introduced it yet but there are already suggestions of a charge between ¿¿6-¿¿8, how can one justify this. Remember, this is Manchester and not the capital.

Another reason for the congestion charge in Manchester bought to the media's attention by the Pro congestion posse is negative effect on the economy in Manchester due to congestion. Every major and successful city in the world had congestion problems. London has one of the richest financial exchanges in the world. London has serious traffic congestion problems yet is one of the major global economies of the world which goes to show congestion will not directly affect the economic growth.

Johnny Quest, Oldham-Manchester (25/01/2007 at 08:48)

I work shifts. When on early shift I have to leave at 5am. The public t ransport system isn't even running in my area of Oldham at that time. If it was, it would be debatable as to whether it would be reliable. In the past t he drivers pleased themselves which route they took, so some parts of my area are not even used by "First Manchester" number 83.
If it was safe to park at Mumps station that would be an option, but wait a minute, trains; they are just as bad. Last minute cancellations, do not turn/arrive at station on time if at all.
These people who think that we should pay a congestion/money grabbing charge should put their own money where their mouths are. Give the public what they need to get to and from work.
"A reliable public transport system that caters for all and those unfortuate enough that have to work shifts".
Going on to my late shift. It starts at 13.00 hrs and should finish at 21.00hrs. But we have to supply heating and hot water to another building and if that building has a function on then I/we can work up to 01.30hrs the following morning. How are we going to get home.
Please answer that one. Bet they can't??

I/we ned our cars to get to and from work at our shift times and should be exempt from paying this charge.
Those in chage of this need to put something together and advertise it for members of the public to vote on.

Many thanks
Johnny Q

PW, Manchester (25/01/2007 at 09:35)

susiejay, re your opening paragraph, this is not about just driving into the city. It's about using the main roads within a sizeable radius of the city. My elderly Mum lives inside the zone, and I live outside. So, when I go to see her, or to bring her to my house, I will have to pay - twice. Using the smaller back roads will be an obvious hell, as they will be chock-a-block. There will be more obstacles and speed bumps there than you can shake a stick at as well. You've seen nothing yet. Don't worry, your Council Tax, Road Fund Licence, 70% petrol duty, and insurance tax will fund all that. You won't get any reduction as this is a local tax, not a national one. Remember people, the prisons are now full. What would they do with everyone if we refuse to pay, and ignore their fines? They would back off. This is still a democracy, and we do have power.

Flint, Oldham (25/01/2007 at 09:47)

I think I understand the system, but what happens to the people living at the ends of the corridors who are not going into Manchester, but need to use these roads? In Oldham the corridor includes both the A62 and Broadway. There are shops and schools on these roads, and if you wish to travel to the M60 you have to use one of the routes. How much will we be charged for this? Would we have to pay in advance of using the road? As a busy working Mum having to plan which roads I'm going to use before I head out just isn't practicle and the last thing I'd want to do is end up paying a fine all the time.

j hicks, holmes chapel (25/01/2007 at 12:00)

Readers can protest against road charging by signing the petition to the prime minister at www.petitions.pm.gov/traveltax
almost 600,000 have already signed .The petition closes on February 20th.

Jo McLeod, Bury (25/01/2007 at 14:43)

I use the tram to come into the city from Radcliffe daily. Parking, ticket machines and service are a huge problem going into the city and coming out is aeven worse, cancelled services and not enough trams. Even from market street 9/10 times the tram is already full.

The alternative bus route the number 98 takes nearly 2 hours to get into the city centre.

Cleaely, the Metrolink is already at full capacity. Why don't GMPTE spend their resources on getting public transport right now? How much has this study cost GMPTE in terms of hours of planning - would it not be better spent on thinking of schemes to improve the exisiting services and then people might just consider using public transport voluntarily? Carrot/Stick as usual they have got it the wrong way round.

m slattery, Ashton-under-Lyne (25/01/2007 at 18:46)

What happens to the small buisnesses that depend on their car but are low earners? Also i need to get from Ashton to Hope hospital for regular appointments as i am retired with multiple sclerosis. Is there going to be a waver for people like us?

Jake Long, Manchester, City Centre (25/01/2007 at 21:18)

One thing that is becoming obvious from this debate is that public transport is just a congested during peek hours as the road network. It will be a cold day in hell before I stop using my car, but for those who are prepared to consider it, it seems that there is little or no additional space left. The problem with expanding public transport is that it runs whether you use it or not. You may only catch the bus/train/tram twice a day, but it is taking up space and burning up energy all day long. Between 10AM and 3PM most public service vehicles are fairly empty. Doubling, or even trebling them in numbers is of no benefit to either so-called "environmental" reasons or congestion. Although often overlooked, and I do not think that I would like one myself, but the best, most energy efficient and practical mode of transport has to be the motorbike. It uses little energy and takes up little space, but still has the power and speed to make it an efficient mode of transport. Not too sure about the gear though, nor the cold weather.

anon, cheshire (25/01/2007 at 21:52)

we've already paid for the roads, so do we get a reimbursement if we don't use particular routes. Can we claim for wear and tear on our cars on these routes if they aren't well maintained. Once again the Labour gov hit the hard working law abiding in the pocket - is it worth going to work any more?
Why do we stand for this????

Lola, Blackley (26/01/2007 at 09:21)

I'm sure this people are justing looking for another way of taking peoples money by deception. What is so congested about Manchester city centre they should go to London and see why there is congestion charge is truly congested and we are not talking about "goes slow" we are talking of old ups for up an hour and have not seen this in manchester. i work in the city and live in North Manchester . C'mon people in power use your brain and improve manchester economy. Manchester is just developing dont compare with London. THE DIFFERENCE IS CLEAR.

luciano albanese, stockport (26/01/2007 at 09:21)

Dear sir/madam.

Though i agree in principle with road pricing,i am concerned that this system could penalise couriers,hauliers and taxi drivers.I,myself am a self employed courier and I therefore would find it very hard to continue my activity if I had to pay to use the roads as well as paying for the tax disc.Perhaps road pricing would be more acceptable if the goverment abolished the road tax duty and replaced it with road pricing.Another thing.Who would be paying to have transmitters fitted to each and every vehicle?.Thank you for your attention.

Rick, Whalley Range (26/01/2007 at 11:04)

I am absolutely behind congestion charging, provided that it is part of an overall plan for transport in Manchester which includes a big improvement in public transport. This must include the buses and trains as well as the Metrolink. Congestion charging has really improved traffic flow in London - but another thing I notice when I visit there is how much cleaner, more frequent and above all cheaper the buses are there. The buses and trams in Manchester are already barely able to cope in rush hour.

Adrian, Warrington (26/01/2007 at 13:55)

How much will it cost to set up and administer? After that how much is anticpated it will generate. As it is based on people paying it, potentially if set high enough, it will cost more to run than it gets back.
As for public trasnport, It cannot cope now (mots trains are full at peak), so who will pay to doubel capcity on public transport BEFORE they introduce this?
If my route isnt, then i'l find a job outside of Manchester and stop shopping there.

Brenda, Partington (26/01/2007 at 14:45)

No To the congestion charge.
Why because where I live the buses are every hour, dont run early enough for shift workers. No Trains or Trams so the only option is the car. T have to get up early every morning to take my son to work because the buses dont start early enough for him to get to work on time. My husband like many others is disabled. He couldnt get to the bus stop never mind get on the bus. I would NEVER go to London to visit because of the charges so what will it do to our visitors? many businesses rely on visitors. Also this charge will increase things like delivery charges for large items bought from shops. This WILL have an effect on everyones pocket whether or not they own a car.
This will kill off the city centre as a tourist attraction, We pay enough to run a car as it is. Would you get on the bus a night? I wouldnt my son got mugged on the bus at 5pm when the bus was full. I feel much safer in my car. Yes I realise you dont pay the charge after 6.30 pm but what if you went early and came back late they would still get you. On a last note. If everyone uses back roads and streets to avoid the charge, how safe will that be for children playing out?????????

j hicks, holmes chapel (26/01/2007 at 19:08)

The Prime Ministers website address to sign the petition against road charging is www.petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax

Chris, Manchester (27/01/2007 at 09:12)

Jake Long - I am a motorcyclist and thoroughly recommend it to anyone. Problem is bikes go free in London but will they do so in Manchester? Methinks not as they have avoided the question on numerous occasions!

Tom C, Astley, Manchester (27/01/2007 at 11:58)

Stop the charges, Open the one way system in and around the city centre to run 'both ways' again, Stop selling off car parks to build those luxury apartments thus reducing congestion looking for a car park.
Or set up 'Park 'n' Ride' areas just outside, pay a car park fee and get a free shuttle bus or the tram into the centre.
On the motorways reduce the speed limit to say 50 / 55 mph at the busiest times [say 07.00 - 09.00 and 16.00 - 18.30 hrs]
this would again allow traffic to flow easier.

Tom C, Astley, Manchester (27/01/2007 at 12:05)

Another thing about the congestion charge is not just vehicle owners being charged its business's too, Couriers for instance and taxi drivers and the like will 'Surcharge' their customers for the privilege of their services.

Knock-on effects could be endless..!

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