Victoria could rival Piccadilly in new age of the train

Alan Salter

November 11, 2006

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VICTORIA station in Manchester could become a serious rival to Piccadilly in a proposed major shake-up of the region's rail services.

Proposals include sending many more trains into Victoria instead of Piccadilly; rebuilding Salford Crescent a quarter of a mile further north; creating interchange stations at Cornbrook, Eccles, Guide Bridge, and Stalybridge; and closing the little-used Ardwick, Denton, and Reddish South stations.

The ideas come from Network Rail and are going out for consultation before firm plans are drawn up.

They take account of the huge growth in Greater Manchester's economy and a predicted 13 per cent increase in rail passengers over the next 10 years.

Suggestions also include longer trains, faster journeys and adding extra services to ease overcrowding.

Between them, Manchester's stations take almost 23 million passengers a year, about 19 million of them at Piccadilly.

With the "loop" line from Oldham and Rochdale converting to Metrolink shortly, and pressure growing at overcrowded Piccadilly, Network Rail wants to switch many services. But the grand old Victoria station would also need redeveloping.

Distribution

Principal route planner Paul Banks said: "The centre of Manchester is moving towards Victoria. There are lots of options where we can better distribute people around the city.

"Clearly, it is not as striking as Piccadilly is today. And if we want it to be the peer of Piccadilly - which a lot of people think it is - it needs to be revitalised."

The company is already talking to developers about building on land next to the station, which would help pay for its refurbishment.

Salford Crescent suffers overcrowding, particularly during university terms and moving it would create more space, making room for longer trains along the congested Bolton corridor, as well as one extra train an hour to and from Blackpool.

Guide Bridge station at Audenshaw, which is close to the M60, could become a park and ride station and passengers could go from there into the city.

Little-used Eccles station could be linked with the Metrolink stop to give train passengers a way to travel to Salford Quays.

A new station could be built at Cornbrook as a Metrolink interchange. Ardwick station has just five regular passengers a day, while Denton and Reddish South have just one train a week and they look doomed.

But the route strategy looks at almost 80 different ways of improving services and also recommends more trains between Manchester and Liverpool.

Chief executive John Armitt said: "The railway in the north west is a successful one and many routes are busy.

"The strategy looks at the challenges facing the rail industry in the north west.

"It presents ambitious, but realistic options for getting the best out of the network to cope with predicted passenger growth over the next 10 years."

The consultation will last until January and a final document will go to the government in the spring.

WHAT do you think of the proposals? Have your say.

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Disgruntled NHS Worker, Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK (11/11/2006 at 11:53)

Victoria was bigger than Picc. back in the 80's as I remember with something like 20 platforms whereas Picc. only had 12 at the time. Then in the early 90's that hidious monstrosity of a building (NYNEX/MEN Arena) was built ontop of Victoria and the Metrolink also had a hand in destroying the place with the removal of 8 of the bay platforms. Ever since then Victoria has been in rapid decline with the roof falling in and creepy people hanging around leaving it as a grimey place. I have fond memories as a child listening to all the different places in Welsh for all trains to Wales and the huge long victorian subway from Platform 10 - 20 and the smell of hops from the 2 breweries near by. Victoria was a very busy hub with trains coming and going every few minutes. I doubt Victoria will ever be rebuilt to her origianl size but I do think this grand old lady who has served Manchester so well deserves some tender loving care and respect. Afterall, a railway station is an open advertisment to a town or city. What does the current state of Victoria tell you at the monent? That Manchester is a run down place that doesn't care. I think the plans sound great, but will the happen? Probably not. It's all talk in this country and no action today.

Annoyed Manchester Student, Wigan (11/11/2006 at 12:42)

It is about time train services into and from manchester were looked at. However the plans seem to overlook the fundamental problems. I have found by travelling from Wigan to Manchester for University that most people in the morning and the evening use the Piccadilly line and by simply sending more trains to Victoria will not stop this. Currently those people who have to catch a Victoria bound train but work etc near Piccadilly change at Salford Cresent. Whilst I would back the plans for a new Salford Cresant Station I fear that this would distrubt services in the mean time on an already overstretched line. The report at present also seems to overlook the fact that there are serious problems today and I hope the report will address this. I would also like to say that I hope the report does not overlook the Southport/ Kirby - Manchester line including the line via Atherton and Daisy Hill as currently there are no services via these stations to Piccardilly even though they are well used by Piccadilly users. In addition I would like to point out that if the radiculess prices currently endured by passengers continues I fail to see how passenger numbers will rise. Over ¿¿6 for a return to manchester in the morning from Wigan for a service that a peak time (8am) fails to take over half the trains passengers to their station (Piccadilly). What this all seems to boil down to is the lack of foresight by the rail network. They are again responding to events instead of dictating them.

Sarkans, Manchester (11/11/2006 at 16:22)

Rebuild Salford Crescent a quarter of a mile further north? Isn't that where Pendleton station was until somebody decided it wasn't the right place for a station!

Tay, Prescot (11/11/2006 at 18:30)

Anything that improves the nightmare trip between Merseyside - Manchester everyday will be a blessing...Hmmm...! Longer trains to prevent overcrowding...What a novel idea...!!!!!!

Train Driver, Victoria (11/11/2006 at 21:18)

In response to the student in Wigan. How foolish of those Victorians not to realise that a student one hundred and fifty years later might prefer to travel to Piccadilly! Was it foresight on the part of B.R. to build the windsor link allowing trains from the North to reach Picc? Is it not foresight to note that Manchester City Centre is creeping gradually back to the area around Victoria that stood derelict for so many years? Is it not foresight to note that many many jobs in finances are located close to Victoria and Salford Central? Is it not foresight to enlarge Salford Crescent station to allow more room for those passengers who do wish to change for Piccadilly? As for ¿¿6 being too much to pay for a return journey of over thirty miles, try taking a taxi and see how many miles you get for that price, or maybe try seeing how many hours city centre parking you get for ¿¿6. You can get a season ticket that workd out at less than three quid a day to travel into the heart of the city centre from Wigan and that my friend represents a bargain. I would welcome a return to prominence of Victoria, which as correctly pointed out, was the major station in Manchester for years and years, something has to be done to alleviate the congestion through 13 and 14 at Piccadilly and the full utilisation of Victoria's potential capacity could well fit the bill.

George, Salford (11/11/2006 at 23:24)

Sarkans, I think the intention would be to build the new Crescent station at the rear of Salford Technical College, near to Fredrick Road. The Wigan and Bolton lines separate at that spot so, it would be possible to connect both lines with a station. This would then allow for more platforms. Pendleton had two stations, one on the Wigan line and one on the Bolton line. They were some distance apart at different levels.

Bob Battersby, Stretford, Manchester (12/11/2006 at 00:43)

Disgruntled NHS worker has it in a nutshell. I really can't see Network Rail expanding Victoria Station after they have reduced it to a mere rump of its former self. Just Four running tracks and platforms through the station. Also, we need electric traction: The profound absence of overhead wires makes us look like some far flung province of a third world country. Ukraine and Belarus are megaskint but can afford electrification. Despite the pending oil crash, the New Labour Litigocracy has been brainwashed into believing electrification is somehow inefficient and unviable, and expensive. In real terms, It's none of these, but E for Electrification remains the "F" word in the New Labour Litigocrats' realm. The Treasury have made a political football of rail: They stuff gold on the mouths of the Rolling Stock owners, but starve the network of real infrastructure investment (another "F" word). As well as squandering a heap of taxpayers' money on new diesel trains when they should have had electric. Behold the new masters of camouflage corruption! We just need a Rt. Hon. Richard Head MP to be Transport Minister and we've got there! Tony and Gordon, Well Done!

Lorenzo Astwood, Edinburgh (12/11/2006 at 00:57)

Victoria could and should be developed as a major hub for rail services, and the whole of the incredibly shabby area around this station needs to be upgraded. There is plenty of potential for running some cross-Pennine services through Victoria (e.g. Leeds to Liverpool or Southport via Rochdale) and for establishing new suburban services out of Victoria - how about Victoria to Heywood (and beyond to Bury and Rawtenstall), Victoria to Stockport via Droylsden and Denton, or Victoria to Glossop via the line through Beswick, with a new station near the CoM stadium? Closure of the stations at Denton and Reddish South shows a lack of vision - this line passes through some densely populated areas and greater use should be made of it - new stations could be opened at places like Audenshaw and Reddish Vale, for instance - but whatever has happened to all those much publicised ideas for opening stations at twenty or so locations around Greater Manchester?

Andy, France (12/11/2006 at 13:37)

Make Victoria the great station it once was.

Lifelong Victoria User, Mossley, Lancashire (12/11/2006 at 16:43)

I've been travelling in and out of Manchester 5 days a week for 10 years or more - it would be far more convenient to get a train from Mossley to Piccadilly, but to do so, I'd have to wait 45 minutes at Stalybridge. I can't see that moving Salford Crescent station would make a lot of difference. One reason for doing so is to allow longer trains. How much longer do they want? Apart from the Virgin trains, all the current trains only take up half the platform. As for overcrowding - this is a problem, but only because everyone is trying to occupy the northern end of the platform where the waiting room is and where all the trains stop. Moving it 1/4 mile north would put it past the junction for the Wigan line, so you'd only be able to use the station for the Bolton line - therefore local residents or students from the University wanting to travel on the Wigan line would then have to get a train back up the line to Victoria or Salford Central.

steve, ringway (13/11/2006 at 08:19)

this sounds great on paper but it needs to be doen properly - theres no point going half way and leaving a system that is not better than now. proper planning and no short term money pinching is what is needed. this is manchester after all. why dont we hold the olympics and get the country to pay for our transport improvements like london is doing

Anon, Manchester (13/11/2006 at 09:46)

The fact that stations in Reddish, Denton and Ardwick should close is wrong. The reason only 5 people a week use Redish and Denton is because only one train a week runs to them and in one direction only. Surely if more services are put on then it will be used. These service have been run down deliberatly to cause low passenger numbers and justify station closing. In 10 years when cars become too expensive these cross town routes will be essential. Unfortunatly we will look back and say if only! The same happened with the fallowfield loop line. Ideal now for cross town commuters but alas its a cycle path. As for Ardwick, no one uses it because its a dump with no staff poor lighting and bad access. Maybe sort those things out and it will be used, too bad because that costs more money than shutting it down. Short termism is alive and well in the railway industry.

Louise, Ashton (13/11/2006 at 09:50)

will believe it when I see it! Incidentally while there at it, please can they put extra carriages on the Ashton/Stalybridge line at rush hour? am sick of travelling to and from work with my face pushed up against the window!

Charlotte, Manchester, Salford (13/11/2006 at 11:35)

Rivals? We are talking about train stations here. It is not about rivalry it's about convenience if anything!
Dry day for real news I take it, so the story needed to get a bit more spicened up?

Priorities, Manchester (13/11/2006 at 16:49)

Any improvement in rail services is good news and Victoria is a beautiful station. It is a reminder of how effective a rail system can be.

No more closures, and please can we have a means of contacting someone on all stations. To be stuck on a station at night in the middle of nowhere, waiting three hours for a train that does not come, where there is no signal for a mobile, no taxis, no buses is just frightening.

CARLY, OLDHAM (13/11/2006 at 16:49)

I THINK THAT THE VICTORIA TRAIN STATION SHOULD BE REDEVELOPED ANYWAY THE PLACE IS A DUMP IT THE ONLY BUILDING I KNOW WERE YOU GET WETTER INSIDE IT THAN WHEN YOU ARE STOOD OUTSIDE IN THE POURING RAIN. REGULAR TRAIN TIMES AND MORE CARRAGES ARE MORE THAN NEEDED AS I GO ON FROM SHAW WHICH IS A BUSY LINE AND END UP CRUSHED EVERY MORNING ITS REALLY BAD THAT MY TRAIN IS EITHER TOO FULL BROKEN DOWN RAINING IN OR NOT EVEN ARRIVING WHEN I PAY IN ADVANCE FOR THAT SERVICE ITS EVEN WORSE IF THEY WANT VICTORIA TO BE A FANTASTIC STATION THEN THEY NEED TO SEE THE BIGGER PEICTURE AND PULL THEIR FINGER OUT

Hazel McKernan, Cheetham Hill (13/11/2006 at 17:31)

Hooray!!! at long last Victoria is getting the credit it deserves.

But its a pity the other stations Ardwick, Denton and Reddish South will have to go. I say keep them open and make them more profitable.

BR made a great mistake closing down Clayton Bridge 40 years ago, don't make the same mistake with these three.

Annoyed Manchester Student, Wigan (13/11/2006 at 20:28)

To train driver in Victoria. I feel it is you missing the point. I was not saying dont restore victoria but merely just remember the consequence of just transferring trains there. Also i am one for taking the student jokes about not doing any work but again you miss the reality of the situation. I work very hard at University and also of an evening and weekend which means i can afford to study so bare this in mind. I finish work at midnight then have to get up at 6 in the morning to get a bus and a train to manchester so please forgive me if walking two miles across manchester seems a little much.
In regard to the ¿¿6 i was making a general point. This is the apparent cost that your bosses value the route at. Maybe i wouldnt mind paying this if it was a fair price for a train which you drive was on time and was a quick service. The cost in a taxi by the way is ¿¿49 and works out cheaper if 4 of you travel from Ashton in Makerfield to Manchester via Wigan. And maybe you should consider that most cut price tickets are not valid at the time i was saying and that nobody actually lives in the center of wigan but in the outlaying areas. I must say this You should get out of your train and into the real world but as your train is probably late anyway like over 15% of northern rail services this may take some time.

The Big Boss, manchester (14/11/2006 at 22:00)

It is about time that Victoria was dragged to the modern era, I say it is fantastic news for the train travellers who use Victoria and Salford crescent. It is only a matter of time before the city becomes gridlocked completely. But the sad end is the closure of the other stations that do not get used, Maybe people need to be made aware that the service is available if you push for it hard enough...The only thing left to sort out now is the over rated and horrible thing we call The Metrolink, Dull grey, Over crowded, No saftey officers, Gangs of youths, Fare dodgers, Drunks and above all drivers who do not give a monkeys...The transport of the future...Ave it.

Adrian, Skelmersdale (15/11/2006 at 00:36)

Good idea in theory to provide more capacity and reliability, encouraging more people out of their cars.

BUT is it too late for that? So much railway land was flogged off in the great short-sighted sale of the 60s 70s and 80s.

I travel in from Skelmersdale. Amazingly, this place lost its station in the 60s at the same time as it was declared a new town; the rail track has been built over.

Nearest remaining stations?

Upholland - no car park, 3 buses a day from Skelmersdale, last train back from Manchester around 6pm. Hopeless.

Parbold - good rail service but most of the goods yard / car park sold off to build flats, whose residents have now commandeered two thirds of the station car park. No parking available after 8am. 3 buses a day. Hopeless.

Appley Bridge - good rail service but goods yard / car park sold off to pub, tyre depot and firm making weighbridges. No buses from Skelmersdale. Car park on access road full by 9am.

I think past governments sold off the family silver and we are going to have to pay to get it back.

Train Driver, Manchester Victoria (16/11/2006 at 17:35)

Student in Wigan, I don't know what you study at University but I would hazard a guess that it isn't Mathematics. Six pounds a day is still considerably less than the four of you dividing a forty nine pound fare. Don't forget that season ticket though, that works out at roughly half the price. And just why do you buy a return when you don't finish work til midnight? The last trains have long gone by then from Vic and Piccadilly. I hope you're not telling us little porkies. I also doubt that you are taking geography as you seem to have a problem with maps. Since when was it a two miles walk across town? Fifteen minutes at a leisurely pace between the main stations. As for your comments about "your train" being late like 15% of Northern Trains....I don't work for Northern Trains, I left North Western several years ago, but I was trained at Victoria and once a Vic man always a Vic man. Incidentally if 15% of trains are late that's 85% arriving on time( I know you struggle with maths), I doubt very much that you could be certain of your time of arrival in a taxi with your three fictional friends nearly nine times out of ten. Hey, and just maybe some of those 15% of trains are late because they are delayed trying to get into the overly congested Piccadilly station, or through the crowded Oxford Rd area. Hey, and maybe diverting them into Victoria, when there is spare capacity available, might just help alleviate the problem

Train Driver, Manchester Victoria (16/11/2006 at 17:43)

By the way annoyed student of Wigan, is it forty nine pounds back home again and do your three friends finish at the same time as you? Hmmm Let me see thats ¿¿98 divided by four, if we all want to travel at the same time or should I get a season ticket which will work out at less than ¿¿3 per day and includes free train travel anywhere in Greater Manchester at the weekend, hmmmmm this is a tough one to work out.

PB, Preston (19/11/2006 at 12:16)

Very cynical proposals to close a line and its stations between Stockport and East Manchester. I'm surprised it has any passengers at all at present as I believe only one train per week runs in one direction. Why not redevelop it as a light rail route? Aren't we trying to persuade people to drive less?

Train Driver, Manchester Victoria (20/11/2006 at 14:24)

It is what is known as a parliamentry service and prevents it's closure to passengers altogether. The line is used for some freight and empty stock movements between Newton Heath depot and Stockport. There are plans for Grand Central to run serices from Huddersfield to Euston coming over the Pennines through Stalybridgeand then possibly going to the West Coast Main Line at Stockport along this underused route

Stuart Gladstone, Huddersfield (21/11/2006 at 13:19)

Anything that boosts rail links into Manchester will be helpful. However, what is needed is a sustainable plan that both provides the extra capacity that is blatently needed (just get any peak-hour train from Huddersfield to Manchester Victoria), and also to have affordable travel that Students, Commuters, Shoppers, Families, etc will use regularly.
Piccadilly station has been gradually improved so that it can provide an hourly frequency of ten trains to the Airport, up to 3 trains to London, 4 trains to Leeds, 2 cross-country services, plus 2 trains to most Greater Manchester stations. This has led to over-congestion and delays, yet it has become one of the busiest stations outside London.
Victoria should now be used to take some of the trains away from Piccadilly (only 1 an hour for each destination will make a big difference). This will give travellers more choice both to visit Manchester and to change to go to another destination. It will also give Piccadilly the capacity to develop new and existing services.
But updating Victoria alone and moving Salford Cresent will not solve the problem of longer trains not being able to use many stations. Only a small amount of money (relative to re-building whole stations) is needed to ensure 6-carriage trains can stop at all of the busy stations - but this does not appear on any of the plans.

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