'Racism' row over fan's flag

Dan McMullan

December 04, 2005

| Submit Comments | Comments (238) | Previous | Next

OFFENCE: Flag of St George.

A WAR of words has broken out between soccer club bosses after a fan unfurled a St Georges flag with the words "Born in England Live in England Die in England."

Brentford manager Martin Allen said he felt the words on the flag were racially offensive.

He spoke out after his side's FA cup match against Oldham Athletic at Boundary Park. Two weeks ago the same flag was flown when Oldham played Brentford in a league match at Griffin Park and police ordered it be taken down.

The flag has now been banned from the ground while an investigation takes place.

Mr Allen explained the London club has a number of black players in the squad who took great offence at the message.

Complaint

He said: "Sadly, very sadly, that flag has racist undertones and we made a complaint about it then.

"Although it was removed it came back out again near the end of the game and nothing was done about it.

"It made it a difficult afternoon.

"If we see it again at our ground I will find the person responsible and burn it in front of him.

"There is no room for it in society or in football."

Following its reappearance in Oldham he complained to club officials who promised to look into the situation.

But Oldham manager Ronnie Moore, said: "How can that be racist? Maybe if it was being flown at a match in Wales or Scotland it could be considered racist but I can't see how that it is racist here - I don't know what he's going on about.

"We have foreign and black players on our team and none of them said anything or complained to me."

A spokesman from the Commission for Racial Equality, said: "Flying the St Georges flag is not viewed as racist, but racism in football and racist comments directed against players and fans should not be tolerated."

Should this St George's flag be burned to combat racism? Have your say.

| Submit Comments | Comments (238) | Previous | Next

Showing comments 1 to 25 and replies | View All

Aud, Moston (05/12/2005 at 09:22)

This is racism gone mad. You mean to say that we are not allowed our own flag in our own country!!!! I think its ridiculous!

Dan, city centre (05/12/2005 at 09:32)

Er, no! The flag wasn't the problem, it was the comments on it!

Anon, Anon (05/12/2005 at 09:38)

How can the St George flag be racist? The only people racist are the ones that object to it, and who gets their own way the people who are not from this country.???????

Mike, Stockport (05/12/2005 at 10:01)

The question asked is just not the issue. The sentiments on the flag, from some of the Latics' less than sensible fans, is. It's inflammatory, pure and simple.

Nicola, Manchester (05/12/2005 at 10:01)

This country is getting worse. There are too many do gooders turning us racist against ourselves.

R U Jock-ing, Didsbury (05/12/2005 at 10:11)

I think it's time English people - and I speak as a Scot - were allowed to display their national symbols without accusations of racism being banded about.

Certain elements in the UK are obsesed with being seen to be 'doing the right thing,' when, in reality, issues often only arise AFTER the PC brigade have stuck their noses in.

Jason, Budapest (05/12/2005 at 10:14)

Its not the Flag thats racist, like the previous comment has stated, it was the words that do have connetations and are all to often used by the less tolerant members of society. It is a shame that the political parties that promote Racist behavour attach themselves to the beloved Flag of St George! Ban these parties and its followers from flying the flag! I am an Oldham supporter, I know about racist trouble having whitnessed it first hand. Its not the Flag, its the idiots that attach themselves to it!

Andy, Bury (05/12/2005 at 10:16)

As Dan says, this is not about flying the St. George's flag which nobody has a problem with, it's the comments written on it and what they imply.

The punctuation is a bit iffy too :-)

Bob Todd, Manchester (05/12/2005 at 10:16)

There is nothing wrong with a simple blank St Georges flag.

What must be banned are banners or flags that contain extremist nazi BNP propaganda and racist statements.

Our national emblems must be kept free of association with such organisations who are trying to social unrest for their political purposes.

Carl, m/c (05/12/2005 at 10:18)

I fail to see how those words are racist. They are the sentiments of a proud Englishman. You don't have to be white to be a proud Englishman. If you were visiting Scotland and similar sentiments were daubed on a St Andrews flag would you be offended?

sean, salford (05/12/2005 at 10:19)

So back when we wore the shirt born in the north live in the north die in the north i presume that was being regionalist. Racist my a*** the trouble is this country has no pride in its self. We are attacked at every step of the way by the enemy within. Every bodyelse is allowed their flags their religion their customs but hey show a flag show pride YOU ARE A RACIST. Why dont we just all get down on our bellys and roll over and let the hysteria brigade run the country, oh sorry they already do and they would never lie to us would they WMD

AR, MANCHESTER and PROUD OF IT (05/12/2005 at 10:26)

What a P athetic C ountry we now live in. ( note the pc )

Billy Huss, Whitefield, Manchester (05/12/2005 at 10:31)

I don't see why the flag and words are racist. This strange logic means Scotland's saltire, Wales' red dragon and Northern Ireland's red hand should be banned too.

Its not important, its only football.

Andy, Brentford (05/12/2005 at 10:36)

Of course the flag isn't the issue. It's the words written on them in this case.

"Born in England, Live in England, Die in England."

ME, Manchester (05/12/2005 at 10:44)

The issue is with the comments and not the flag? That may be the case,but your found to be racist these days if you erect the St Georges flag on St Georges day in certain areas of Oldham?... People just look for problems with racism in this country and then the problem escalates. Someone will not doubt be adding comments to this page later saying we are all racist because we don't agree that this person who had the flag and LOVES his country should be burned at the stake!!!

Fred, Cheshire (05/12/2005 at 10:44)

There's nothing racist about the message. It's not saying, 'Born in England with white skin'. There are plenty of white English people who were born abroad or live abroad or die abroad, just as there are plenty of non-white English people who were born,live and die in England. The message is just showing strong feeling about England, it has nothing whatever to do with race.

Andy, Brentford (05/12/2005 at 10:56)

The only people who know the sentiments behind the message are those who wrote it. Perhaps they'd like to give their honest explanation.

Steve, London (05/12/2005 at 11:06)

Martin Allen has a problem with the implication of the phrase on the flag not the flag itself...it might seem innocent enough and i must admit im not too concerned about it, but paired with the alleged racist chanting coming from sections of the crowd it is simply a visual symptom of a larger illness.

Gary, Brentford (05/12/2005 at 11:13)

Nothing wrong with the flag or the text on it in my opinion, I find it shameful that my club are against a flag im proud to be associated with.

Alan, Rochdale (05/12/2005 at 11:16)

whats up with the words

'born in england, live in england, die in england' - that sums up a lot of the ethnic minorities that do live in england - there is no racist angle to. maybe it should also add ' claim benefits in england' too

Angie, Singapore (05/12/2005 at 11:24)

Maybe someone should point out to that whatshisname and other PC types to suggest an alternative flag to fly during games. The Union Jack perhaps? Well, that will surely insult the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish as they have nothing to do with the premiership whatsoever blah yadda tosh. Right but aren't there a fair number of Scottish, Welsh and Irish footballers too?

No wonder some English persons are not proud of their identity because of the "racist" nature of the St George's flag. Shame on you Mr Allen.

Marie, Ashton (05/12/2005 at 11:33)

As a black person born in this country I see nothing wrong with the flag or the words on it. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your country. My husband is a proud Englishman! The issue with the flag was not raised by a foreigner. Does everyone remember when the local authorities tried banning the flags being flown from taxis during the world cup? All the Asian firms flew St Georges flags from their taxis in protest!

Blue, Manchester (05/12/2005 at 11:36)

If I saw a flag at an international game say..saying Born in Ireland, Live in Ireland, Die in Ireland, I wouldn't give it a second thought, and neither would officials, (just using Ireland as an example), but as soon as the St Georges flag is displayed the PC brigade come out of the woodwork. Where on the flag does it mention colour of skin.

L Jones, Wales (05/12/2005 at 11:37)

The shame of this is that the Flag of St george has been taken over by Right Wing groups and is therefore seen as being racist, this allong with the words used is plainly a ploy by racists, to stir up racial unrest.

It's time that the English nation took back its flag and flew it proudly as often as possible, this is the only way to take it back!

Ann, warrington (05/12/2005 at 11:47)

You know what this is a prime example of why I am moving to Australia next year - pathetic

()

Report

News