It's the latest battle of the bands between Manchester and Liverpool – and this time those on Merseyside have come out on top.
Manchester's Halle Orchestra, founded in 1858, had boasted it was the country's 'longest-established permanent professional organisation'.
But those claims, used on the orchestra's website, were challenged by a mystery complainant who said that Liverpool's Philharmonic Orchestra was older.
They contacted the Advertising Standards Agency - who launched their own investigation
Now the ASA has ruled that it is indeed the orchestra at the other end of the East Lancs Road which had rightful ownership of the claim.
The Halle produced various documents to back their boast, including extracts from founder Sir Charles Halle's autobiography, and annual accounts from 1858.
It acknowledged the Liverpool Philharmonic Society, which later became the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra (RLPO), was founded in 1840, but said it was 'an organisation that acted as a concert promoter, rather than an orchestra'.
But the ASA upheld the complaint, stating that there was not enough evidence available to substantiate the claim and thus it was 'misleading'.
A magnanimous Andy Ryans, the Halle's marketing director, said the orchestra was 'disappointed' by the ruling.
He added: “We are good citizens and we obeyed it completely.
"We changed the wording and we continue to be what the Halle has always been, which is a forward-looking organisation.”
Despite the ASA's findings, Mr Ryans said he had been a 'little surprised that there was a formal complaint', adding that the line had been a 'very accurate and very honest claim'.
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stand by for a flood of claims for the distress caused by the Halle claiming to be the oldest.
"Manchester's Halle forced drop claims to be oldest orchestra in favour of Liverpool Philharmonic after complaint to ASA"
Is this heading grammatically correct? I can't understand what it is saying
(Ed: Apologies, corrected)
So all Concert Promoters can now be called Orchestra's.
Really though they should look at when it changed its name from a ' Society' to 'Orchestra' before giving a judgement.
What's with the swearing.
Sub editors/proof readers on strike again? Surely that should be: 'Manchester's Halle forced TO drop claims to be oldest orchestra in favour of Liverpool Philharmonic after complaint to ASA.'?
(Ed: Apologies, corrected)
Well, if the Halle are charging a stinking fortune for tickets compared to the Liverpool Phil, and pricing the masses out, this really serves them right.
Haha. Caught out.
Probably played the "scouse card"
The Halle has far many strings to its bows, that sadly Liverpool lacks. An unfortunate PR faux pas on a world class orchestra.
It was the Halle who made the wrong claim, even Manchester's friends, the BBC, stated in the programme of the concert given by the RLPO at the Proms two years ago that the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, was the country's oldest.
BTW, oldest and best under Petrenko, recently voted best Classical recording, second such award in 3 years.
Was it really worth wasting money on investigations such as this for God's sake
How lamentable. Still, I'm sure it won't affect Manchester's hard-earned status as a growing Beta World City (along with Birmingham, Leeds, Glasgow and Edinburgh)
Desperate Mancs
Desperate Halle. Pathetic behaviour.
All open to historical interpretation which obviously the ASA are the go to body for. Claim was very specific so objection seems very petty... scousers being petty -surely not?
Upon reading the ASA ruling is says the reason for its decision against the Halle was due to them not being able to provide "comparative" evidence with the RLPO from 150+ years ago. This I would image would have been extremely difficult unless the RLPO were prepared to assist the Halle challenge the complaint. Considering Jayne Garrity, the RLPO's head of communications and corporate affairs has said it "does not matter who is older" I would ask her to assist the Halle in providing the "comparative" evidence to sustantiate the original claim.
I think you will find that the Classical recording of the year award is the Gold Medal and the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic have won this twice in the last 3 years.
A spokesperson for the RLPO states that they have records of payments to professional players in 1853, which pre-dates the Halle.
Perhaps the Halle could have picked up the phone and asked the RLPO, before making the claim.
Typical Manchester..... Always moaning and don't let the facts get in the way of a LIE...
Always claiming something for themselves....Like Salford
which is a city in it's own right...BBC have moved to Manchester, since when was Salford in Manchester????? And they have an airport which is in Cheshire!!!!!! not even in Greater Manchester!!!!!
Is there nothing in Manchester worth shouting about...even the M62 had to be nicked by the Mancs for their ring road...It used to by pass Manchester and now it is the by pass. ... even the tourist figures are manipulated , . no pun intended
But then you do have the 2nd oldest Orchestra in the UK