Maybe its because there were roadworks set up on every major route into Manchester prior to the vote, which made it look like congestion so people voted in favour.

Surely not Helen.

Right now if we do away with the deliberate congestion creating pinch points in places like Prestwich and Cheetham hill, and then remove the stupid and pointless bus lanes that waste 50% of the road capacity at peak times when it's needed the most, journey times will fall even further.

"Maybe its because there were roadworks set up on every major route into Manchester prior to the vote, which made it look like congestion so people voted in favour.
Helen The Bells Swollen Ankles, M40"

You lot on here really are paranoid. It's not that I doubt the council would think of doing such underhand tactics, I just doubt they're capable of such joined up thinking involving multiple departments coordinating a plan like that and getting each set of road works set up on time!

"Maybe its because there were roadworks set up on every major route into Manchester prior to the vote, which made it look like congestion so people voted in favour." - Helen The Bells Swollen Ankles, M40

... and the 'cunning plan' worked - didn't it?

Medication time!!!

Helen The Bells Swollen Ankles, M40

I was just about to say the same thing!

Its a plot to introduce a congestion charge and take money off you, like they did with the bus lane enforcement system.

This is all recession driven. It will rise again when the economy improves. But it shows the risk we would have taken. Congestion charge income would have dropped had it been in place and the taxpayers would have been left with a gaping financial hole to fill. That was always my argument for saying No - there was no explanation for what would happen if the income was lower than expected.

Nope Laura. But probably the small percentage like yourself voted for it, the rest of us with a brain did not.

as usual laura! you where fooled! the majority of us where not!
we said no!
the minor investment in public transport contiued. the massive financial burden thrust upon businesses especially as times have become hard has been prevented!
manchester will survive throught the recession!

i told you so doesnt even come close!!

The journey times had fallen well before the congestion charge came in anyway. We have the worst recession on record so jobs went anyway and also lots of companies relocated out of the city centre because of the hassle coming in and the lack of parking.

I know companies that moved out because they thought the congestion charge was coming so in a way it worked for the council because their scare tactics (stating publicly that the city is gridlocked, faces further gridlock etc) and threat of the charge made them move out so this helped cut traffic numbers as they shifted to Warrington. Good move really. Apart from less jobs here, I suppose. People believed waht they were saying so voted with their feet.

If we want less traffic, then don't encourage people in. This seems to be working.

They were talking about pedestrianising Deansgate (aprt from buses being allowed through) near to Kendals. They wanted to have a pavement cafe to rival Paris. I note that at the section we now have Pizza Hut, Tesco Express, Oxfam and a new large BetFred. Not exactly going to be on oil paitings adorning the walls of home around the world unlike the Parisian Cafe scenes.

I think thats 2 - 1 to Helen ! Laura.

Helen's right. I spoke to someone at Manchester Uni about a year before the vote, and they told me that the there was an effort to increase congestion on the roads before the vote. Traffic lights weren't changed for optimum traffic flow after suggestions were made on how to improve their efficiency and disruptive roadwork schemes were encouraged to create traffic congestion.

How else do you explain a rise in car use but a fall in congestion?

well just like i used to say back when the con charge debate was at its peak.
Labour promised massive public transport investement to get into government. a decade later and they've never provided it. even though we've all been paying our taxes into the system for 13 years or so. (just rememeber this come the general election too!)
then they had the audacity to try and fool us into thinking they would be providing it if we allowed the con charge. and so charging us for it yet again.
basically paying twice for something that we hadnt received.
now who would accept that if it was something you'd bought and it never arrived?

Imagine if the vote went the other way, the headline would have been held off for a bit longer and then made to look like improvements have already made the traffic run smoother, but without much money spent, well certainly not enough to justify the charge they were proposing.

Most of us knew it was a con charge, I suspect those who were all for it, either couldn't see this or they work for the councils who were likely to benefit from this massively

Just as we at MART predicted. Being proved correct time & time again does give one a grand feeling, something Laura Norder hasn't experienced for quite some time I imagine.

Where are the hordes of MEN pro-toll trolls now? Kurt, Norder, Moulding et al....your boys took one hell of a beating!

:D

Can I hereby congratulate those who doggedly,on a daily basis,refuted/rebutted/and basically made idiots of those who tried to impose this tax upon us.As Congestion as dropped,any chance figures on road deaths could be checked also,who remembers that Doctor brought in by Leese n Co to tell us that road deaths would fall if the charge was brought in,which it was doing anyway..On a personal level,I didnt imagine the traffic lights being messed about with..25 years of driving 8 hours round the City Centre is also classed as knowledge.

The major reason for reductions in traffic congestion and overall volume is I suspect due to the recession. With less people in full-time work there's less need to be travelling during "rush hour" etc.

I think the rejection of the congestion (which I also rejected) has nothing to do with this story.

Audenshaw Bob

You seem to have overlooked the, at least, seven eating/drinking venues along Deansgate between Kendalls and Blackfriars, plus the two on the side street, and possibly some on the other side of the street (at least another two over those you named). It should have the potential to become the vision you describe (although without the buses), the loss of the major North-South route across the city centre might be a bit much though.

Didn't we have a whole army of council lackies on here telling us that we had no other option; that we were heading for traffic catastrophe?

You can regard climate change hysteria in the same way. Ignore it.

half of you lot are on a different planet, treating this as though the roads are now magically empty. there is still an underlying problem with the volume of traffic on our roads that will need to be addressed at some point.

citycentre, I am all for it outside the Town Hall and teh bars accross the way can serve them. Moon Under Water is full of football louts so not a scene we want spilling onto the streets.

Also that particular section of Deansgate gets about one hour of sun a day given it's narrow corridoor and is blocked out by the buildings.

Better to sit in hours of sun in Albert Square than outside Tesco Express or Bet Fred in the shade pal.

Lifelong Sufferer...it may have absolutely nothing to do with the Congestion charge,and as you say,all to do with the Recession...Apologies to those who have fallen victim of it,but can we thank the Recession for the sequential traffic lights being reset back to how they were ?

"as usual laura! you where fooled! the majority of us where not! we said no! the minor investment in public transport contiued. the massive financial burden thrust upon businesses especially as times have become hard has been prevented! manchester will survive throught the recession! i told you so doesnt even come close!!" - Jay B, oldham

I was hardly 'fooled', and I still believe it will happen, stick around.

I also note you've still not found the 'caps' facility on your computer... repeat after me: educashun, educashin, educushion.

And as for 'fat legs Helen'... great, witty and well-thought-out response - you have a glittering future as a newspaper columnist before you.

Bring it on you paranoid people. (I just knew 'care in the community' would go t*ts up at some point.)

"half of you lot are on a different planet, treating this as though the roads are now magically empty. there is still an underlying problem with the volume of traffic on our roads that will need to be addressed at some point."

Rubbish, volumes are decreasing and there is no evidence to support your assertion.