GREEN campaigners have accused transport bosses of underhand tactics to force through a bike ban on trams.
Cyclists have spent years lobbying for permission to take their bikes on the Metrolink.
Transport chiefs had previously suggested that the rules would be relaxed when a new fleet of trams were brought in. But last week they voted to continue the ban.
Greater Manchester Transport Executive - which runs the network – was accused of stifling debate by suppressing a key report on the issue until after the vote took place.
Last summer, the transport body paid consultants to look into the viability of the issue.
Campaigners, who have been lobbying for bikes on trams, formally requested to see a copy of the report by Altrincham-based transport consultants Mott MacDonald in September.
But they say transport bosses first lost their Freedom of Information request and then dragged their feet for months – defying laws which require public bodies to answer within 20 days.
GMPTE finally replied earlier this month after campaigners threatened to refer them to the information commissioner.
In a letter, GMPTE's solicitor says they would be making the report public today – three days after the decision on its contents had been made.
And they say the delayed response was the result of their 'internal processes' taking longer then expected.
Stalling
Green campaigners accused transport bosses of deliberately stalling them in an effort to prevent debate about the issue. Pete Abel, from Manchester Friends of the Earth, said that armed with the report he and other cyclists could have mounted a stronger campaign to raise awareness about the impending vote.
He said: “We requested a copy of this report months ago and the executive have either been incompetent or deliberately failed to act on it.
“The fact that this issue has then come up for a vote out of the blue with just a few days notice, has given us very little time to lobby councillors and raise public awareness.”
On Friday, councillors who sit on the Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority, which sets public transport policy, voted seven to five to continue the ban.
They followed recommendations put forward by GMPTE which said bikes could act as harmful 'projectiles' inside a carriage during a crash.
But cyclists argue prams, musical instruments, and other bulky items are already allowed, and say many other tram systems already allow them.
A spokesman for GMPTE said: “The consultants’ report was one of several sources of information, including GMPTE’s own review, advice from Metrolink’s operator and feedback from the Office of Rail Regulation, which were considered in reaching the recommendation on which members then voted. Members voted against deferring a decision until they had seen the full report. They then voted in favour of the recommendation to continue with the current policy.”
GMPTE's 'dirty tricks' over bike ban on trams
January 17, 2010
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There is something self righteous about a certain type of cyclist. You see it when you go walking around Edale. Whether they are on race bikes or mountain bikes they think they have right of way over whether on road or on trails.
My brother in law used to be in a cycling club and left because of their isolationist attitude. Very cliquey.
As for taking a bike on a train well why would you? Use it for what it is supposed to be - ridden. Alty to town is nine miles so ride it. Why should I be on a packed tram only for somebody to not only squeeze on at the next stop but to want to carry a big bike on? Thery are packed as it is without them.
On the train to Edlel you get them banging their mud filled wheels into you. Imagine that on your suit for work - tyre tracks down your back leg.
I know somebody who is up in arms about this. I told her to cycle but she said that she wants to get on the tram in Sale with her bike and get off at Pomona so she can cycle that last five minutes to her office in Castlefield! Why? 'Oh because I want to do my bit for the environment'. What like riding for five minutes will save the earth! She is a right-on sort and she says that by cycling it will send out a message to her colleagues. Crazy. It's like when thy had that bike rally in town last year and I saw this bloke with a 'go green' t-shirt on loading his bike into the back of a 4x4. Self righteous.
32% of global warming is directly attributed to the production of rice in paddy fields (go research this). Ban rice in the third world, ban two-stroke tuk-tuks etc. I was in Sri Lanka recently and the fumes there are awaful. Britis Leyland buses from the seventies nelching out filth and destroying my planet.
I quite agree with Ron, either cycle or use the tram/train. I have had dirty bike wheels wiped across my clothes whilst on a packed train, and if you remonstrate with them you are told not politely where to go!
I have never encountered a cyclist yet who is not an arrogant lycra bully.
In fact I think bikes should be banned on trains as well as the tram.
So they're confirming that by converting train lines to tram lines, they'll be providing people with a less integrated, less flexible system.
Thanks a bunch.
just one of the many reasons why i will not rely upon public transport to commute. until it is properly subsidised, run properly, interconnects between bouroughs and allows all kind of passengers including cyclists. then i will just continue with my highly reliable car.
i wouldnt mind but quite a few years ago you could actually take your motorcycle on the trains for long distance travel! back when cars where not readily avaliable!
Ron, Gorton
"Alty to town is nine miles so ride it"
Brilliant answer - why didnt we think of that?????
Getting kids ready for school, the -17 weather, early starts. eejit car drivers
Take your pick why we dont cycle 18 miles a day, every day - When was the last time you cycled 90 miles in a week???
Ms B, Manchester
Allow me to assure you that, despite cycling to work on a daily basis (except the last couple of weeks) I have never owned a piece of lycra clothing, am certainly not a bully, and I even stop at red lights.
Ron
How much of the carbon dioxide/methane released during rice farming arises from already available carbon sources, and how much is converted from fossil fuels? Oh, and what possible relevance does it have to taking a bicyle on Manchester's tram system?
According to Gmap it is 16 miles from Altricham to Bury, and it will be over 19 to Rochdale once that route is converted which is quite a long way to ride before being able to take in the local attractions.
Blue Solution, get out of bed an hour earlier then. I run nine miles most days, more when I am in training for a marathon and I get up at 5am every day to do it.
Simple question:
Why do cyclists want to be allowed to take their bike on a tram?
Answer: Because they aren't allowed to do so.
It isn't about people actually needing to do it is it? t is about fighting the rule. How much extra are you prepared to pay to take your bike on?
It is just plain daft that you want to take a mode of transport on a mode of transport. They tram is there for people to get on and get to work, not for some egotistical eco-religous fruitcake to use part way and then get off and ride to work and preach to everybody about how she saved the planet.
Oh and one other thing. Can all cyclists please note that riding on the pavement (and road) at night without lights and whilst wearing an ipod is not the greatest of ideas.
If I have my headphones in whilst sitting at home I haven't got a clue what's going down around me so how can you ride a bike with them in?
Personally I gave up playing out on bikes when I was about 15 on the last day of my paper round.
Ron: "They tram is there for people to get on and get to work"
What a very sad perspective you have on human existence. I don't exist solely to work, I also enjoy leisure time and I don't see why the tram shouldn't also be thought of as a means to enable recreation too. If I decided on a Sunday morning that I'd quite like to hop on a tram with a bike in order to take a ride somewhere further afield, I don't see why that should be a problem for anybody else.
city centre, the methane is created by deliberate flooding of fields and the heating of the water. You can hardly breathe in these places, whether it be Laos, Sri Lanka, India, China, Cambodia, Bhutan - been to them all an more. Tuk, tuks, very old cars, 70's buses etc and you can taste the pollution.
Here we have had catalytic converters, unleaded, more efficient engines etc for two decades yet we have guilt heaped on us that we are personally destroying the planet.
A mate of mine is one of these right-on types. He has fur children who will also grow up to pollute and they have toys galore all made in China. Container ships are teh woprst polluters.
Simple way to help the planet - reduce population, stop eating rice, buy local (especially food). My right-on mate cooked me a meal last week - rice from China, chicken from Brazil, veg from Israel and cop this one - water all the way from New Zealand. And this fool calls me anti-planet for be not recycling glass.
He harped on about his recent holiday in an 'eco lodge'. All telling me how he was helping the planet yet there were six of them flying to Queensland! Really helping the planet their Trev.
"Simple question:
Why do cyclists want to be allowed to take their bike on a tram?
Answer: Because they aren't allowed to do so. "
Two simple answers; a work colleague takes his bike on the train from Rochdale (or did 'till the line was closed) as he lives about 3 miles from the station, and works about the same distance from it at the other end. Many people like to enjoy the landscape in the hills around Manchester, tams and trains are quiet useful for getting there (especially once the new line to Rochdale and Oldham is open) and once there bikes are an ideal way to get around it.
"They tram is there for people to get on and get to work" Really I thought anyone in possesion of a ticket was permitted to use the tram, regardless of what they intend to do at their destination. Do you think the schools will be open at 5am for bluesolution to drop his children off, otherwise there is not much point getting up that early?
"Personally I gave up playing out on bikes when I was about 15 on the last day of my paper round. " Ohh, following such a devasting put down I have no doubt cyclists around the region will see the error of their ways and go out and buy cars to further clog up the already busy roads.
Black Flag, maybe you do spend your leisure time on trams but as in the case of another on here it isn't there just to serve you.
Citycentre wants to take his bike on the tram at Altrincham so he can get off it at Rochdale and go for a pedal.
I wouldn't mind it picking me up outside my house and getting on it to Snowdon, but can't so I find an alternative. Maybe it is breaching my human rights that they don't have such a line for ME, ME, ME.
Rules is rules and if GMPTE say no bikes then it is no bikes. Personally I like to take my alsation walking at Dunham Massey, so I drive there. It isn't allowed on the metrolink. Maybe I start a campaign because selfish me wantsto take my dog on the metrolink. Sod everyone else. Think only of yourslef. Same thing.
I respect the rules.
Ron: "Black Flag, maybe you do spend your leisure time on trams but as in the case of another on here it isn't there just to serve you."
Neither is it there just to operate in a way that satisfies your particular whims. I don't spend my leisure time on the tram, but I don't see why, if I wished to take a bike on a tram on a Sunday morning that should be a problem.
"Rules is rules and if GMPTE say no bikes then it is no bikes."
I don't think anybody has said otherwise, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't apply pressure to get the rules changed, especially when the people making the rules previously said that in principle they wanted to change the rules.
Ron, Gorton
Thats all very interesting, but I still dont see any connection with taking a bike on a tram?
The reason I asked about the source of the carbon is that increasing carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere (which we are told is a bad thing) only happens when some buried carbon source such as coal or oil is dug up and burned; otherwise farming just shifts the carbon around the biosphere without changing the total amount present.
The buy local argument may well be a red herring, research carried out by Christopher Weber on emmisions produced in food prodcution found about 10% were a result of moving the actual food from its source to where it was eaten, the rest arose from its production. So for many foods it is less efficeint (in terms of emmisions produced) to eat local foods which required a high energy input then to ship them in from somehwere further afield where they can be produced more ecconomically. This was particularly the case for red meat, where the final shipping accounted for only about 1% of the total. The research was reported in New Scientist in April and September last year.
why not just have the ban during peak times and have some sensible rules (max 4 bikes/tram?)
personally i'd rather cycle the 9 miles into town (what ever the weather) that squash myself on the tram with everybody else. however, I would like to take one of my bikes over to bury on a Sunday morning to 'play out'...where is the harm in that?
of course I could drive but it's much nicer taking in the world and meeting people rather locking yourself away in a car. GMPTE need to remember that they are here to serve the puplic in an open and transparent way.
Ron, Gorton,
You kin to Ace?
I may be simple, but isn't the idea of a bike that you sit on it and peddle. Taking it on a tram seems to defeat the object.
I have only been on a tram once and won't ever use it again. They are over-priced, grubby, over-filled and not convenient for where I want to go. Metrolink is a complete waste of money.
If you have a bike, ride it and stop moaning.
" Ron, Gorton, You kin to Ace?" - Savage Mandarin, Manchester
Cue: duelling banjos... ;-)
chris: "why not just have the ban during peak times and have some sensible rules (max 4 bikes/tram?)"
That's pretty much what the suggestion was. The 2002 statement from GMPTE started:
"in line with national and local policies on integrated transport, GMPTA has given its backing to the principle of allowing cycles on Phase 3 trams during non peak hours..."
It's only ever been about taking bikes on trams outside peak hours.
Ron - You sound like a right laugh
I am begining to see why your chosen sport means you spend long perionds of time on your own......
Ha Ha Ha! so much for joined up thinking on alternative transport.What a joke- and these ballons were bringing in the congestion charge!
Let them on the trams PLEASE. The less time they spend on the roads the better!!
Ron, Gorton
"Alty to town is nine miles so ride it"
Brilliant answer - why didnt we think of that?????
Getting kids ready for school, the -17 weather, early starts. eejit car drivers
Take your pick why we dont cycle 18 miles a day, every day - When was the last time you cycled 90 miles in a week???
The Blue Solution, Always looking to the future"
So why take the bike at all or are you all just to lazy to walk to and from the train station.
"Ron: "They tram is there for people to get on and get to work"
What a very sad perspective you have on human existence. I don't exist solely to work, I also enjoy leisure time and I don't see why the tram shouldn't also be thought of as a means to enable recreation too. If I decided on a Sunday morning that I'd quite like to hop on a tram with a bike in order to take a ride somewhere further afield, I don't see why that should be a problem for anybody else.
Black Flag,"
Just in case u hadn't noticed I think the people are all talking about the morning and evening rush hour, nobody is dicussing weekend lesiure time as far as i can see.
Keep the ban.
Have cycled all my life and work in the city centre,thats 75 miles per week! Sometimes use the tram when shopping at the Lowry..can you imagine all the scally's in Salford having carte blanche with their bikes?
Leave the trams for passengers..leave the bikes for the cycle lanes!