Salford jail is one of most overcrowded

Mike Keegan

August 25, 2009

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FOREST Bank prison is in the top 20 of the country's most overcrowded jails.

Ministry of Justice figures show that the Salford prison, has 1,149 inmates - 349 more than its operational capacity, putting it 19th in a list of England and Wales' most overcrowded prisons.

Nationally there are 8,865 more prisoners inside the prison system that it was designed to hold.

A total of 88 out of 140 jails, including Forest Bank, were over their Certified Normal Accommodation, defined as providing `decent' standards.

The figures were compiled by the Prison Reform Trust, which warned `sentence inflation' meant too many people were being locked up.

Pressure

Director Juliet Lyon said: "Pressure on public spending means that ministers can no longer afford to be complacent about prison overcrowding or the high reconviction rates it leads to. Simply building more prisons is an expensive dead end.

"The only way to reserve prison for serious and violent offenders is to cut out all unnecessary use of breach and remand and tackle sentence inflation and the growth of indeterminate punishments."

"Investment in prevention, treatment for addicts and mental healthcare would all pay dividends.

"After more than ten years of lurching from crisis to crisis it must be time for co-ordinated effort across departments and authoritative leadership."

Prisons can increase capacity by holding two prisoners in cells designed for one, or three in a two-person cell. Last month nine prisons were so full they reached their absolute capacity, beyond which they are unsafe. Forest Bank's overall capacity is 1,160.

A Ministry of Justice spokesperson refused to comment specifically on Forest Bank but said that they `will always provide enough prison places for serious and persistent offenders'.

They added: "The Government is pursuing an extensive building programme to expand the prison estate. "The vast majority of these places, almost 4,700, have been provided in new accommodation."

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Is It Me? (25/08/2009 at 12:20)

Bringing back flogging for crimes of violence,possession of assets for theft and instigating castration for paedophiles would free up many places! Also bring back borstals and approved schools and build more prisons along with hard labour facilities!

dessie, manchester (25/08/2009 at 12:23)

its a jail get used to it!!! they aint in there for no reason, pile em high i say!!!

Guten Tag, Manchester (25/08/2009 at 13:49)

So this is a story? Who really cares? You do a crime, get caught, then don't expect the Hilton Hotel. Remove the playstations, TVs and so on from the cells and make more space.

john davis, Broughton, Salford (25/08/2009 at 13:58)

Simply building more prisons is an expensive dead end says Juliet Lyon, well well well so on what basis is she telling us that. expensive dead ends are in reality the war in Iraq and Aghanistan which is costing billions a year, money which could go into more prisons and the very thing that would alter criminals is how they spend their time in prison, if made to work 12 hours a day 7 days a week no parole full sentence served and proper sentencing in the first place then a criminal might actually not re offend as he or she would know the sentence ahead would be hard to take. I could bleat on for hours on this one but lets ask the brain of Britain Juliet Lyon this question, if more and more offences are committed and there are no more prison spaces due to the shortage of new build prisons then it doesn't take a genius to tell you that those who should be going to prison will either not go at all, or get a awful lot lower sentence than they merited. So Clowns in high positions like Director Juliet Lyon really do need to tell us the public what the solution is because in my mind and hopefully millions more in the UK its more prisons and harsher sentencing and conditions once inside Prison that is required.

Big Brother, North West (25/08/2009 at 14:34)

prisons are overcrowded because no one cares about going to prison these days. It is not a deterent. When someone is sent to prison 99.9999% of the time they will know someone already in there.
plus the chance of getting Luxuries in prison that they would not have otherwise got without committing offences is a big factor.
Lets face it - Britain is a joke when it comes to crime and justice!

John Quambo, salford (25/08/2009 at 14:53)

so what if they're full, Awwww, am i supposed to feel sorry for the rats that inhabit them? I think not. If they don't like it in there then they can always stop committing crime!

citycentre, manchester (25/08/2009 at 15:44)

As it says in the article, "prison overcrowding or the high reconviction rates it leads to", So simply sending more and more people to ever more overcrowded prisions is pointless, and expensive, and just leads to the same people being reconvicted on release.
A more useful way forward to be to send less people to prision, and allow the prison service to carry out its remit to rehabilitate, and prepare as many offenders as possible to re-enter mainstream society on release, rather that the presnt plan, of locking up more people, for longer (even though less crime is commited) and turning out prision hardened re-offenders

Daddy_Dead_Lift, Hyde (25/08/2009 at 16:01)

Director Juliet Lyon said "Investment in prevention, treatment for addicts and mental healthcare would all pay dividends"

which as far as I'm concerned is just another way of saying we are going to continue to do naff all about this problem.
This country is full of highly paid useless bureaucrats like the above.

Supreme Being, Manchester. (25/08/2009 at 16:09)

The British Justice System was once valued all over the world and many countries have based their justice system on ours. Shame they have managed to control theirs and we haven't.

We lost any respect when this country decided to abolish the death penalty. (Before I was even born). Since then we have struggled to control the criminal fraternity effectively. So much so that other nationals are choosing to come to this country to commit crime.

Yes we are a very soft touch, and it doesn't end with the justice system.

We need to toughen up now, most of us are honest people with morals, I look at the under 25's we have now and revisit Shameless. It's scary.

Britt/Canada (25/08/2009 at 18:48)

citycentre, manchester

Sounds like the perfect solution until you or a member of your family are a victim of the a crime,,,the USA are building private prisons that have private security firms looking after them.Maybe Richard Cheneys GEO group (build & staff these prisons for profits) could advise on this issue.

John Quambo, salford (26/08/2009 at 01:07)

Citycentre Manchester - - - what planet are you from? Criminals don't get rehabilitated, end of. So in the abscence of any solution to the problem, the only thing to do is to lock them up for a long time to prevent them from causing misery and fear to others.

citycentre, manchester (26/08/2009 at 09:02)

Britt/Canada
"until you or a member of your family are a victim of the a crime" What information do you have to suggest I have not?
"Criminals don't get rehabilitated" Exactly, that is the problem, the prisions are too crowded and too many people are in them who shouldn't be, so politicians can pretend to be acting tough on crime, while not doing anything useful.
Once the mentally ill are properly treated, sensible drug laws implemented and petty drug users removed from jails the numbers should fall to a managable level, at which point some useful work can be done with the actual criminals who remain.
Better to have them serve their sentence, recieve some education and be able to contribute on thier release, rather than get stuck in the revolving door of overcrowded prisons, drugs and petty crime

Ronky, Bowker Vale (26/08/2009 at 11:58)

I see three options.

1) We build some more prisons, at a cost of lots to the taxpayer
2) We send less people to prison, at a cost of lots of cash and inconvenience to the future victims of the criminals
3) People decide not to commit crimes.

Which seems the easiest solution?

As for spending money on rehabilitation - how much does it cost to be told theft, violence, rape and driving without licence/insurance bad, not stealing, not commiting violence, not raping and not driving without licence/insurance good?

citycentre, manchester (26/08/2009 at 15:26)

1) We build some more prisons, at a cost of lots to the taxpayer
Might work, but the prison population is already the highest it has been, and apparently crime is wosre, so the precedent is not good.

2) We send less people to prison, at a cost of lots of cash and inconvenience to the future victims of the criminals
Depends who we dont send to prison really, petty offenders on short sentences don't benefit anyone, drugs offenders could be better delat with elsewhere (if at all), the mentally ill probably shouldn't be in prison either

3) People decide not to commit crimes
Would be best, but seems unlikely, we could of course make less things illegal.

As to what it costs to simply tell people, no idea, but probably not much, it would cost more to equip people with the skills and confidence to be able to manage their lives better and avoid crime following a spell in prison, and for those it works with probably a lot less than just waiting 'till they re offend, arresting and jailing them again

Rob Wilson (28/08/2009 at 15:01)

Obvious this one.
Increase in population + increase in crime = increase in prisons
GENIUS.

Now get to it before its too late. Ah, but why would a political party who may not be here in 4 years want to do something to benefit us all if they may not receive credit for? Selfish politicians thinking of no-one but themselves. Spend the money, build the jails. Time is ticking and it isnt on our side.

Blue&Manc Manchester (04/09/2009 at 12:37)

who cares?

PW, Manchester (04/09/2009 at 14:53)

I store greater quantities of stuff in my house by building shelving. Problem solved. But I do admit that while they're in there, they're not my problem.

-------------------------- -------------------------, ------------------------------------- (04/09/2009 at 17:13)

The people in there have only got themselves to blame. If you don't want to be there, don't be a criminal. It isn't difficult to be law abiding.

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