If and when, the first thing must be clean the buses. I used to use the bus all the time when going into town, but no more. They are filthy. There are kids drinking and smoking on the top floor and the use of the English language leaves a lot to be desired. The double deckers need to have the clippies reinstated, that way they can keep an eye on the donkeys that use the top deck.

And how about a more direct bus to and from Sale/Wilmslow?? My young son has to walk for 45 mins to Wilmslow train station, then take a train into Manchester Piccadilly, then a tram to Brooklands, then another 50 minute walk to my home in Sale! Otherwise he has to get a bus either into Stockport or Manchester (Appx 1hr), then the tram to Brooklands, etc. All that, when driving there takes only 20 minutes!! Sometimes we don't have the time to see each other at all, as we work full time, so a bus would be great!

Judging from the picture, I only hope none of the £3M goes on pies for Councillor Whitmore!

So we have GMPTA, GMPTE and now GMITA !!!

I caught a FIRST bus yesterday after taking the car to the garage for a service. They charged me £3.95 return and I found out later they could have charged me £3 for a day saver. It is this level of dishonesty and stupidity with the pricing that simply puts you off. I want my 95p.

Coun Keith Whitmore,less bus more bike for you.

Jan Elliott

Are either Sale or Wilmslow big enoguh to require 45 and 50 min walks? i reckon at a leisuerly 4mph he could probaly walk direct in that time and miss out the train/bus/tram altogether.
There are some quiet routes in that area, has he considered cycling?

I hope keith is charged £7.90 when he wants a return somewhere, failing that pity the poor lass sat next to him hanging on by the skin of her cheek to the chair.

Rammylad, what is your problem?? You moan about "this level of dishonesty and stupidity" and them spout LIES about your 'experiences' with bus travel..

1) Firstbus do not do returns anymore, they were abolished a few years ago.

2) Even if they did, a Firstday (Daysaver) is priced a £4,so the driver would have done you a favour giving you a £3.95 return, because it would have been the CHEAPEST option at the time.

3) as for the £7.90 return, i would love to know where that comes from, it certainly cant be in Gtr. Manchester, because any bus driver with a shred of decency will tell anyone traveling around the conurbation that a £4.60 anybus daysaver is the most anyone should pay for bus travel WITHIN Gtr. Manchester

You want honesty, get your own house in order first.

Rammylad - As Dave has already pointed out, your lack of research into rubbishing public transport is somewhat laughable. If you're going to lie, at least do it right.....

The buses tend to have the day ticket price plastered all over them too, and if it didn't, wouldn't it have made more sense to enquire as to what the best ticket for you was?

I don't often use buses anymore, but whenever I have, drivers have always told me (without me needing to ask) the cheapest ticket. It often goes like..

Me: Trafford Centre please!
Driver: Are you coming back?
Me: Yes..
Driver: A day ticket will be cheaper for you then..
Me: Why thank you...

Pleasantries and no need for a good moan on an internet forum when I get home.

Jan: Your son could quite easily get the train to the airport, and then a bus on to Sale. Try gmpte.com and go on the journey finder, it is a journey of 1 hour and 3 minutes with only one change!

Compo; Please report ALL incidents of drinking (presumably you are talking alcohol) and smoking to both the bus company and the Crime Reduction Unit at GMPTE. The latter's claim that there are only 12 such incidents per 1 million passenger journeys is obviously rubbish, but its largely the fault of law-abiding adults for not reporting the incidents. Smoking on a bus is now a Crime under the2006 Health Act.

Rammy Lad; Dave F1 is right. You need to do your research. One of the biggest problems with public transport in this country are all the "experts" who hardly ever travel by bus.
Whoever told you you could get a £3 DaySaver that included travel on First was lying (or at least, a few years out of date).
As for GMPTA/PTE/ITA; GMPTA has been replaced by the Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority. The Authority decides Policy (within the tight constraints laid down by Whitehall), and GMPTE carries those Policies out.
You're not one of those people that think that all bus services are subsidised by the local taxpayers (like local rail is) are you?

As for "KickStart", the first three were hardly the rip-roaring success claimed;
The X34 is a fair enough concept, but the other two really show how bad Public Transport policy is outside London.
The 263 needed Whitehall money (albeit a relative pittance) , to simply re-instate the Evening services lost when Metrolink abstracted the revenue over a decade earlier.
The 378 was an attempt to increase bus use in Bramhall (95% car ownership!). No wonder its been so successful that the service has just been reduced again!

Let's hope that this new round do a better job of Social and Economic inclusion, by improving (or even restoring) links in areas where thousands have no other modes available.

I apologise for bing ignorant but aren't the buses owned by private business, why are the council asking the goverment for money?

80% of public transport trips around manchester, this must be hogwash, I have never seen a full bus for years, and why should the council pay for these scheems, and why can't the bus companys pay for these things out of there profits. Dose Coun keith Whitmore use the buses?

Phil,

Funny how you like to claim everyone is lying when they say something you don't like. Change the tune mate and you may get people listening, acuse them of lying and you have lost before you have started. Basic business sense. £3 day savers were available and you know that as your posts show you have a passion all things busses. So if you knew why say someone is lying. How is your foot injury coming along, did the doctor get the bullet out ok.

Rammylad,

I don't know which Phil you are aiming that at, but there were 3 of us (including Dave) who noticed your codswallop! I'm not accusing you of lying because you said something I didn't like, I'm accusing you because everything you said was factually rubbish. There were no £3 daysavers available on Monday. There were no return tickets available on Monday.

Yes, he got it out fine...it's a good job he had some practise, as it looks like someone else will be visiting him soon! My TiF arguments were opinion, and I was totally entitled to that, but proclaiming you got a non-exsistant return ticket and missed out on a non-existant £3 daysaver is pointless.

mark quck: "I apologise for bing ignorant but aren't the buses owned by private business, why are the council asking the goverment for money?"

Presumably because the council wants to pay bus companies to run new routes for which there aren't enough passengers to cover the cost of running the buses from the fares.

Heres a idea, what about a fleet of luxury seated, limited stop buses, with the same fares scale as the local trains and trams, linking to areas not served by rail, or rail routes that are overcrowded due to lack of rolling stock. You could call it 'GM Express' or 'MetroExpress'. Bit like the Trans-Lancs Express that used to run Bolton - Bury - Rochdale/Middleton - Oldham - Ashton - Stockport, until the service was run down/decimated. Have it as an 'arms length' publicly or staff-owned business, rather than owned by the bus bandits, with profits reinvested back into the network/other transport schemes, rather than shareholders.

Jan Elliott - for Wilmslow - Sale by public transport you can take a two buses, via the airport (200, then 18), takes about 1hr, or quicker, a train (to the Airport), takes 8 minutes, then a bus (18), under 1hr.

Piccadilly Dog, if you think that could be operated in a financially viable fashion and you feel strongly about it, why not try to form a bus co-operative and get it done?

Send me a po box and I'll send you my £3.95 return ticket mate. Or are you saying that the bus driver just randomly invented a fare because he could not be bothered to work out the correct fare or give straight honest advice. Are you saying it is likely I was more than the person next to me for the same journey. There in lies the problem with public transport. There is no confidence in the companies who hold the council and passengers to ransom.

Also, as MEN did not print it, do you think £3.95 for a 5 mile, 11 minute journey is reasonable. 50p in my car mate, so what is the 400% hike for using public transport.

Furthermore, day savers used to be available for £3 just six months ago as my wife mentioned it to me, so now they are £4. That is a 33% rise when inflation is ~2-5% depending on how you measure it. So why have GMPTA / GMPTE / GMITA / our councillors / our mps not done something about the passengers being ripped off?

33% !!!

Jan Elliott - for Wilmslow - Sale by public transport you can take a two buses, via the airport (200, then 18), takes about 1hr, or quicker, a train (to the Airport), takes 8 minutes, then a bus (18), under 1hr. Piccadilly Dog, Beswick

Or drive, 30 minutes and not suffer the dregs of society.

Rammylad: "Also, as MEN did not print it, do you think £3.95 for a 5 mile, 11 minute journey is reasonable. 50p in my car mate, so what is the 400% hike for using public transport."

The capital cost of the bus (I'm assuming your 50p doesn't include the cost of buying and maintaining your car, allocated over its lifespan) and the fact you are paying somebody else to drive for you.

Rammylad - the point being her son might be under 17, and thus unable to drive. Perhaps you believe those who can't drive, or have no access to reasonable public transport, should stay at home? Some people in society choose not to use their car (I have two vehicles myself) where QUALITY, reasonably priced, reliable public transport exists. Unfortunately, this is the UK (outside London).

I would love to set up a workers' bus co-operative, maybe GMITA or New East Manchester could help? Unfortunately, I have seen others do the same (Glossopdale, Dennis'ss) to be bought out by the big bus bandits. I have studied Business, Law, Economics, but happen to work in public transport ('privatised'), suffering poor quality services, fare evasion, anti-social behaviour, and little signs of improvement.

How do you know that your car journey will take 30 minutes, you could get held up at Cheadle Royal, on the M60, etc.? It will take longer at peak hour than night time, for example.

"Or drive, 30 minutes and not suffer the dregs of society. "

The drivers of the two cars that ignored my right of way and drove me off the road this afternoon seemed pretty dreg like to me. Sadly neither bothered to stop and see if the cyclist they left lying on the pavement was ok or not, so i suppose i will be paying for my own repairs, so much for this third party inurance cars have, and people keep saying cycles should have too.

Rammylad:

Why not scan it in and host it somewhere for the whole world to see? That won't cost anyone money if you want to penny pinch!

Now then, £3.95 for a return journey...is that 5 miles each way? Or 5 miles in total? If it is each way, then that is inline with the standard mileage rate most companies offer drivers. 40p per mile. You'd quite happily claim that, if you were driving would you not? Or would you tell them to keep their money as it only cost you 50p?

I can tell you that the fares go up at New Year on the buses, and this year, a System One day ticket went up from £3.60 (or was it £3.80?) to £4.30. Now that's not a 33% increase.....although, I admittedly can't comment on First's own day ticket as I haven't bought one of them in some time, however I can tell you that it was £3.30 18 months ago! I specifically remember it being only 20p or so cheaper than the System One version.

First did have a day/week ticket offer on a few months back, when petrol prices hit their peak..perhaps your wife is confused with this.

Rammylad, I think you need to think about what you are saying and stop talking out of your backside. I REGULARLY use First buses - i.e. practically every day, so I know exactly how much it costs to use. First have NOT offered returns for at least three or four years. It is only some of the independent operators that offer return fares, neither of the "big three" in Greater Manchester offer them. A FirstDay is £4, and has been since the start of this year (unless you buy a FirstDay Wigan at £3.70). It hasn't been £3 since around 2005 (it has since been £3.30, £3.50 and £3.70). Drivers cannot just offer random fares, the machines simply won't allow them to do so.

Oh, and Phil has his criticisms of buses too - so SHUT UP YOU PRAT! And £3.95 for a return is good value in some areas - some people in rural areas have to pay that because the demand for services is lower.