RELATIVES of Manchester's two most dangerous gangsters are seeking compensation from the police claiming their human rights have been breached by a crime fighting poster.
When Colin Joyce and Lee Amos were jailed for gang related murders Greater Manchester Police marked their conviction with a billboard campaign across the city.
It showed the killers alongside pictures of how they could look when they are finally released from prison.
The posters thanked the public for coming forward with the evidence that convicted them.
The number of shootings in Greater Manchester dropped by 92 per cent following the arrest of the pair.
But some relatives of the gangsters say the the campaign breached their human rights.
Civil rights group Liberty is backing their legal action against GMP. It is understood a letter sent to the police by Liberty says that the posters infringed the relatives' privacy under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.
Click here for the full background to the case
It says that while members of both families were unconnected to the police investigation they have suffered an increase in hostility from the public following the the billboard campaign.
The relatives say they were not informed the posters would be going up and so were denied the chance to oppose them.
The letter asks that GMP admit the campaign was unlawful, agree to take down the posters and pay Amos and Joyce's relatives compensation.
If the police refuse then Liberty say they will apply to the courts for a judicial review which would challenge the way GMP made its decision to run the campaign.
Last night GMP chief constable Peter Fahy said: "We appreciate that in all we do we have to consider the human rights of all and that a balancing exercise has to be carried out. In this case we were concerned with the ultimate human right - the right to life and this far outweighed any privacy rights."
Gooch gang leader Joyce was convicted of murdering Tyrone Gilbert, 23, and Ucal Chin, 24, trying to murder a third man and possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life.
Chief Constable Mr Fahy
These were amongst the most dangerous men in Manchester and our communities are safer with them locked up.
Amos was convicted of killing Tyrone Gilbert. Both were jailed for life following a six month trial in which nine other members of the gang were jailed.
Chief Constable Mr Fahy said: We appreciate that in all we do we have to consider the human rights of all and that a balancing exercise has to be carried out. IN this case we were concerned with the ultimate human right - the right to life and this far outweighed any privacy rights."
He added: "These were amongst the most dangerous men in Manchester and our communities are safer with them locked up.
"We used the poster campaign to drive that message home, and to let young people who may be tempted into gang violence understand the real-life consequences of such actions. We also wanted people with information about gun and gang crime to know they could have confidence to come to us and that we would ensure they were protected.
""We believe the public interest for the campaign was overwhelming."
James Welch, Legal Director for Liberty, said; "This case is not about protecting convicted criminals who are safely behind bars but about safeguarding innocent family members who have done nothing wrong.
"The police should be keeping the peace not stirring up trouble. It seems clear that they have leaked this correspondence in a cynical breach of their legal and ethical duties. Liberty will always protect vulnerable people no matter how unfortunate they are in their family relationships."
Joyce's and Amos' could have a claim if they can prove police did not consider the impact on them, says a human rights expert.
Richard Scorer, from Manchester law firm Pannone, said: "Case law in this instance says that before police run campaigns like this they should take various factors into account.
"They would have to consider the impact it might have on families. I think the police would be on firm legal ground if they could show that they had looked at the various factors beforehand.
"If however they decided to go ahead with it without considering those issues, the case would be very different.
Click here for the full background to the case
Comments
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Is this a joke? How about compensation for the families of the victims of the two who were locked up? Surely they have more right to it.
The rope would have solved the problem.
'Human Rights' issues for criminals etc should be abolished. This country is getting beyond a joke.
How does an "Ageing Behind Bars" poster issued by GMP depicting the faces of how two notorious gangsters will look when they are released from prison violate the human rights of their families? The posters were used as a deterent to other wanabee criminals to desist from a life a crime; do not the families of Joyce and Amos not also want the same thing as all other law-abiding citizens. This claim is the compensation culture prevelant in the UK going haywire and I just hope that these families are not successful in their claim.
3 comments so far and every one seems to miss the point.
Squeally - compensation for the two are not mutually exclusive.
Ace Shakespeare - the rope would not have solved it would it? This is about families, not the criminals. Whether they are right or not in their claim, the punishment handed out to those who were guilty is of no consequence. Had the police undertaken the same 'PR campaign' but been able to say they'd subsequently killed those convicted of the offence the same complaint could have been made.
Bury Pensioner - this is not about the criminals. It is about their families. I have to say that I am in two minds about this one, as for once I see the coppers' point about using this to try and deter people from following a life of crime and violence. And perhaps that does outweigh the privacy concerns of the relatives. But Human Rights are universal, otherwise they're not human rights, and there has to be shown to have been some consideration of that in respect of the families in making the decision.
"It says that while members of both families were unconnected to the police investigation they have suffered an increase in hostility from the public following the the billboard campaign"
I would of thought the fact they murdered people would give them hostility from the public? Not just from posters.
The relatives should have be told about the posters being issued but i dont think the police should take them down. There a good idea
It was a puerile stunt by the police in the first place.
As soon as you break the law and are convicted of the crime you relinquish all human rights you have until you are released!
that would solve a hell of alot of things like this. and save the tax payer money too!
I get more hacked off by the day with the attitude of some people in this country.
How can this be the fault of the police? Surely when these people chose to become gangsters they knew what they were doing and didn't think about their families so maybe the families should blame their sons and brothers.
Did the families not realise what their offspring were upto until their arrests?
The families now say the police have put them at risk but I dare say that being the mother, father, sister, brother etc of a gangster puts you are more risk. Sue the gangsters for putting you at risk.
The frightening thing here is that they will probably win the case. The psoters were put up to warn other gangsters and to therefore protect the majority of the public. Don't the gangsters families want this?
The taxpayer will now pay for gangsters families to sue the police. You couldn't make it up.
The cheek of it! What about the human rights of the victims? They should start their own group and counter sue!
Give me a break. Lets get some money out of the GMP cash cow, jump on the gravy train.
You can imagine the Gooch's enemies, forget the murders, rivalry and wars, GMP have put a poster up, lets go and target the families.
I think the attention may be more to do with the callous killings their sons/brothers committed rather than the poster.
If only it were the wild west, Billy the Kid would be a millionaire with all the "WANTED" posters he graced!
Clearly dreamed up, proposed and being driven by the real scum in the compensation rip off - solicitors!
If they get a penny, it will say a great deal about the European Laws we have been saddled with. I might even vote UKIP.
could the MEN do some further investigation?
I'd be interested to know if Liberty approached the families or the families approached Liberty? Personally I doubt they had the acumen to figure out there was a potential case to be had and this is another case of Liberty doing something just to get in the news again.
I'd also be interested to know if Liberty will be helping the families of those murdered and harrassed by these criminals to bring a human rights case aginst them?
I seriously doubt it!
My grandad lived in his home in Longsight for 96 years. It was his parent’s home and he brought up his siblings there when his parents died. He lived in peace until around the early nineties and since then he has been burgled over ten times and been the victim of a robbery three times.
More and more bars were put up at windows to prevent these instances but they always found another way in.
Eventually he had to move out when at 96 he was pushed to the floor. He died in a home 3 months later. Some of the scum that were arrested over years had connections with these gangs.
I never saw Liberty jumping over themselves to stop my Grandad being a prisoner in his own home. Liberty has one adjenda, to help scum!!
Erm...just a little point or 2...
Old Tom...Human rights are not 'universal'. It is actually a set of rules made up by the EU, hence he european Convention on Human Rights which the UK then brought into our law by adopting the Human Rights Act 1998 (which actually became law in 2000). Or, as some put it, written in belgium, by the germans & enacted by the british!
Secondly, I would like to know which part of the convention on Human Rights it actually breaches? Right to ife...none of the family are in threat of being killed due to the posters. As has been rightly pointed out, they were well known 'G' boys & carried those risks all the time. Right to privacy? Again, family are not mentioned on the posters. It was a well publicised case, so does that then make every reporting newspaper & TV channel complicit in GMPs case? Right to a fair trial? already done & guilty thanks.... need I go on.
Please enlighten me. This compensation culture is a free-money-merry-go-round which needs nipping in the bud.
Oh and Liberty UK.... what I think of you lot would not be published in a family newspaper or website!
Maybe I'm missing the point, but how can this poster be responsible for increased hostility towards the family?
Members of the public abusing the family obviously already know that they are relatives of Joyce & Amos, so with or without the poster they would still get the abuse.....looking at the poster does not give people the ability to recognise the family members does it?? If I showed you a photograph of me would you suddenly be able to identify members of my family if you saw them in the street? Of course not! My point is that the hostility they are receiving is off members of the community who know who they are already, and that this would have happened with or without the posters. Using it as a sob story isn't going to wash - I think it's unfair the family members are receiving abuse however this was bound to happen regardless, and blaming the poster for it is verging on the ridiculous.
This is a big joke, am sure the family of their victims would love to see a poster of their loved ones at that age.
"In this case we were concerned with the ultimate human right - the right to life and this far outweighed any privacy rights" Well said, Peter.
These families are only drawing more attention to themselves by their actions. There are far worse punishments than photoshopping an ageing face on someone. None, unfortunately, an option in this country.
Off the fence: "Liberty has one adjenda, to help scum"
So when Liberty argued that human rights legislation applies to serving soldiers and the government therefore has an obligation to ensure that they are provided with equipment which is fit for purpose, in your opinion, they were helping scum?
I'm usually all behind Liberty and all they stand for , but this is taking the Jeremy....... !!!
I wish the story wasnt so awful too, dont know to laugh or cry
Kieran
MCFC32: "Human rights are not 'universal'. It is actually a set of rules made up by the EU hence he european Convention on Human Rights"
The ECHR dates from the 1950s, long before the EU came into existence. It was created as a way to ensure that a state such as Nazi Germany could not occur again in Europe.
"which the UK then brought into our law by adopting the Human Rights Act 1998 (which actually became law in 2000)."
The ECHR has been law in the UK since we became a signatory in the 50s. The only change the HRA brought was to allow UK citizens to bring cases in UK courts, rather than going to Strasbourg.
"Or, as some put it, written in belgium, by the germans & enacted by the british!"
Most of the drafting was carried out by the British. I don't think the rest of Europe would have been asking the Germans to write it in the immediate aftermath of World War 2!
You couldn't make it up, could you?
Old Tom
If the relatives have had a hostile reception from some elements of the public, its nothing to do with the poster campaign which is attempting to show all the wannabee gangsters what can happen should a life of gang crime and killing be persued. You get caught, go to prison for a long time and are not released until old age (if at all). No breach of anybodys human rights there.
The poster cannot have caused any hostility, it was the crimes that have been committed by their relatives. Wree any realives details put on the psoetsr? No. It just seems they are trying to use this as part of the compensation culture we now have.
I've a lot of time for Liberty, but with this they have got it so, so wrong.
Everyone in Moss Side knows who Joyce is and the idea that somehow police were revealing something remarkable by sticking his mugshot up on a couple of billboards is a bit convenient.
Black Flag, I don't think what the police did was purile because these wannabe gangsters try and make out that the gang lifestyle is glitzy and glamorous and actually showing them that someone like Joyce will come out of jail looking like that is, IMHO, quite effective. Perhaps they should put up some posters of the early graves of the kid gangsters who have been lost along the way.
Also, human rights - as set down in the wonderful ECHR - are universal, but they are not absolute. The implication of what Liberty is saying is that NOONE (not just police, but the media too) could EVER discuss criminal convictions as it would interfere with the privacy of family members. That's a pretty big assault on another human right, the right to free speech (or freedom of expression as it is called in the declaration) from an organisation which is supposed to defend it.
The right to privacy has to be protected, but surely the police didn't reveal any family members through this campaign, so I'm confused at Liberty's point.
I have never in my life said the following sentence except in jest, cos I'm pretty much a bleeding heart liberal, but really and truly: This is political correctness gone mad!
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