City 'more dangerous than Basra'

February 08, 2009

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Major General Andy Salmon (left) in Basra

Politicians and police in Manchester have laughed off a military commander's comments that the city is more dangerous than Basra.

Major General Andy Salmon, the commander of British troops in Iraq, said violent crime had fallen to such an extent in the country's second city that it was “less dangerous” than Manchester.

Maj Gen Salmon told a newspaper: “On a per-capita basis, if you look at the violence statistics, it is less dangerous than Manchester.”

The comments sparked bemusement from members of the Making Manchester Safer partnership - made up of organisations such as the city council, Greater Manchester Police and the fire and probation services.

A police source said the force's top brass laughed at the Royal Marine Commando's comparison and described it as “nonsense and unrealistic”.

The force did not want to make an official comment but issued figures showing from 1 January 2008 to 16 November 2008 there were 46 murders across the patch.

Police added that a “significant” proportion of those were committed by people who knew their victims.

According to British military estimates, there were 11 murders in Basra last month alone - with only one linked to extremist groups.

Deputy leader of Manchester City Council, councillor Jim Battle, said: “We hold our military personnel in high regard and recognise they are doing a fantastic job.
“Making any comparisons with a conflict zone and a British city is not helpful at all.”

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Hamish Macbeth, Whitefield (08/02/2009 at 08:28)

""On a per-capita basis, if you look at the violence statistics....""

I don't imagine Basra has a detailed crime recording system and upto date comparable statistic recording databases than Manchester has. I also imagine Basra doesn't suffer NCRS or "National Crime Recording Standard" - the UK Governments bureaucratic rules on crime recording.

So the Generals comments are hardly about comparing like with like.

PW, Manchester (08/02/2009 at 09:26)

Telling the truth is never helpful to politicians.

Mark, South Manchester (08/02/2009 at 10:06)

Typical upper class twit British Army Officer.
That lot have never seen northern cities like Manchester, as being part of their England.
Frightening!

Empty Head, Southport (08/02/2009 at 10:46)

They shouldn't laugh so loud. Instead they should try asking the public if they feel safe when walking the streets of Manchester alone. Better still try walking them without their uniform on.

Mark,Radcliffe. (08/02/2009 at 11:05)

If this comment can be statistically and comparatively upheld,then it may make GMP think twice,when so willing to bombard the Public with figures and percentages...Bearing in mind that "Statistics are like bikinis.What they reveal is suggestive,but what they conceal is vital"(A.Levenstein)

midway, Ostsee (08/02/2009 at 11:19)

He's in a good position to make this comment.He has seen both sides.Send some of your New Labour Wallahs to Basra see if he is right.

Chapman (08/02/2009 at 11:33)

I don't know why the Police and Politicians are laughing this off.
The civilians in Basra have the Army to protect them we do not.

Guten Tag, Deutschland,, Manchester (08/02/2009 at 11:49)

It's not the crime and violence in Manchester (even if it is low), its the actual feeling of being safe that people crave and not just in the City Centre. Crime may be low in the suburbs, but put that down to the fact most areas after dark are like 'no go areas', especially with gangs of youths hanging around, so no one really ventures out. I can understand what General Salmon is saying. It's safer to walk down the street in Basra then it is to walk down a street at night in say Longsight, Hulme or other town.

David, North M/C (08/02/2009 at 12:11)

The Labour politicians and police find it funny do they that Manchester is a violent lawless City. This is what we are up against, that is unless you lean to the left, then your perception of reality won't see it like that.

Dave Pollard (08/02/2009 at 13:49)

Do you thnk it might have something to do with the attitude of the law enforcement agences running the two cities.
I would imagine if you stepped out of line in Basra you would get 7 kinds of **** kicked out of you, a sure incentive not to misbehave again.
Whereas in Manchester you`re more likely to get a pat on the head and a pound out of the Poor Box!!

Panzer 391, Salford (08/02/2009 at 14:59)

Just wondering do the Police let them community coppers patrol areas like Moss side, Hulme, longsight and such areas or do they accept it is too dangerous for them ?

AI73, Rochdale (08/02/2009 at 15:24)

some parts probably are when you dont have the army to protect you and the law is with the villians.

andanotherthing, Mcr (08/02/2009 at 17:25)

I have no way to compare the two. Maybe this guy has. Makes you think a little.

Enigma, Trafford (08/02/2009 at 18:48)

Ahhh but if the labour government had spent half as much on Manchester as they have done with Basra then maybe that would be a different story!

It just shows where the governments’ priorities really are.

I have mates who have served in Basra with the Royal Marines the other year and they reckon he is talking out of his green beret. When was the last mortar attack in Manchester?

Mark, South Manchester (08/02/2009 at 19:01)

I bet the Major General would love to send his boys onto the streets of Manchester to sort out us "northern riffraff" wouldn't he? Just love it!!

Cllr Ken Hulme, Delph (08/02/2009 at 19:20)

mmmm - I don't know about the rest of Greater Manchester but the centre of Oldham is certainly a place to avoid of an evening

Guten Tag, Deutschland,, Manchester (08/02/2009 at 22:32)

Enigma, Trafford - The General is not talking about being shot or mortared. He's talking about how safe you'd feel about walking down a certain street after dark in Manchester. At the mo, your safer doing that in downtown Basra then most streets in Greater Manchester. That's what he is saying. It's nothing to so with guns, knives or fighting. It's to do with how safe you feel as a person walking the streets.

Professor Rob Right, Birmingham UK's Second City (08/02/2009 at 23:56)

I support the Generals comments as Manchester is indeed very rough. So bad that I believe it is now regarded as the European Capital of Gun Crime!

red one (09/02/2009 at 00:15)

I was surprised to read that "from 1 January 2008 to 16 November 2008 there were 46 murders across the patch'. That's an average of 4 per month and that's without the people that have been left maimed for life and will never be able to live normally again. To compare Manchester with Basra is nonsense. Basra has just come through a war and militant factions are fighting for supremacy. I suggest we bring our brave troops home and let them sort out the streets of our cities as the Police seem to be losing the battle.

Mr Manchester (09/02/2009 at 12:42)

Professor Bob: just because you have an inferiority complex, doesn't mean you're not inferior.

DavidOldham, Shaw (10/02/2009 at 21:38)

I seldom visit Manchester now as it is not a welcoming or safe place for ppeople of my age (50s). Its very much geared to drugs, drink & gay sex and has all the problems that go with it. The same can be said of most towns in Greater Manchester.
I used to live in Saddleworth (my family have owned property there for generations) but left 3 years ago as the recent 'comers in' have ruined the area. They seem to think that the world revolves around drink & have little regard for the place which they treat like a council estate with trees!

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