The less people know - the easier it is to nobble the results.

If more people had an idea of which way people were voting (without knowing the full result themselves) it would make it harder to cover up any wrong-doing.

Obviously they don't want any whistle-blowing happening here!

VOTE NO I trust that I can check my vote has been counted in the future, it is too important a decision to throw away the supporting documentation, we are in uncharted waters.Chads and swamps and things!

myself & neighbours have finally got ballot papers in the post, so there will be plenty more NO votes on their way.

all my family, friends, neighbours & workmates are voting NO.

i have yet to meet a single sane person who backs this disgraceful tax on getting to work/going shopping. we pay enough tax under this government already.

Boris has just scrapped part of the congestion charge in London after research found two-thirds of people opposed it. We need to make sure we send a similar message in Manchester.

VOTE NO

The X box is rather misleading.

I want to know will the vote count if only the smaller box within the bigger premarked box is crossed

and

will it count if the opposite the whole big box is crossed X

In both cases it will be clear which box has been marked, but could sway the vote if one of the above is classed as "spoiling the ballot paper"

I do not know anyone who has actually received their ballot papers yet! Considering that I work with people living as far away as Stockport, Oldham and Bury whilst I live in Worsley I would have expected at least some of them to have received their papers. It is claimed that all papers will have been delivered by today..........we shall have to wait and see what the postman brings.

This travesty continues. The ballot papers taken to London where they can throw the result out of the public eye?

The whole thing is a disgrace, a sham, a dutch auction, crooked, bad, wicked, shameful and wrong.

probably so it can be fiddled by the yes brigade

We received our voting papers this week and i have never seen such a complicated misleading pack. As a previous person has said, which box do you put your cross the larger or smaller, and then you put one envelope inside another but you have to get it all spot on otherwise it wont be counted. They have clearly done this so that they can say that a good chunk of the votes cannot be counted as the forms were incorrectly completed. And why posted, it's Christmas, therefore this will slow down the postal system and what's the chance of all the votes reaching their destination by the 11th?? again another ploy to nobble those votes!!! You can hand post your votes on the 11th, and only the 11th at certain town halls, the list is on one of the forms, it might be safer to do that. What a load of misleading Pap!! I am yet to meet anyone who will vote yes, if they turn round and say the Yes voters win then i know the voting has been nobbled. VOTE NO! we pay more than enough.

It is a good point about the x in the box. After all there are two boxes, a small one and a bigger one. I only put my cross in the small box. Does that count.

I will be checking after the event that they a) recieved my vote and b) that they recorded my vote. That is my right and I urge all to do the same.

Even Mugabe had to publish who had voted this time around to prevent claims of Fraud, yet in this country we become more secretive.

Well done Sir Noodles, you keep opening the door for lots of court time should the vote be a yes. I think you are secretly against the charge.

You're correct OT the ballot is moron proof, who do you think that will benefit?!

Why are the Evening News so wretchedly trying to swing this debate and this vote? This is OBVIOUSLY NOT about congestion charging. It is about TRANSPORT IMPROVEMENTS.

Only a very small number of people will choose to pay charges and travel across zones at peak times.

This is about turning a pretty mediocre transport system into something fit for the 21st Century.

Getting £3 Billion pounds of investment - 50 years worth by normal standards - in four or five years.

This is as important to Manchester's future as the Manchester Ship Canal was in the 19th Century. Built on twin piers.

Penny and ha'peny shares taken up by almost everyone in the cities of Manchester and Salford and those with a good feel for business throughout the region.

A bit like the government is putting up on our behalf in this case.

Plus, that second pier, charges for the users whose goods would flow into and out of the city. Creating an inland port just as we had an inland railhead at a time when these things really mattered to the local economy.

Now congestion, air quality, decent passenger transport are what matter.

Calling this C-Charge over and over and over again is a great disservice to the debate, As is running the C symbol with every piece. this is nothing like London's scheme. It is much better and much fairer and with massively more transport benefits. Front-loaded passenger benefits.

Please STOP calling this C-Charge. this is playing into the hands of the selfish naysayers.

Think of our children and our children's children. Vote YES for their health wealth and happiness.

Oh dear you people are so paranoid it's hilarious. Is that because there's a chance that the silent majority might actually get what they want?

Really, you need to get over this. Nobody is going to rig the votes, are they?! Or is it going to be the mysterious man in the shadows who changes the traffic light sequences to increase congestion, that shot JFK, that faked the moon landings, that covered up the UFO crash at Roswell.....

If you haven't worked it out by now, I will be voting NO as will 90% of the people that I know, but I don't know many pensioners, students, left-wing nutters etc.

BUT


Can we stop with the paranoia? I fully believe that the votes will be counted fairly and this poor second-rate proposal will be beaten. All this talk of vote rigging just cheapens the argument.

I do agree that the instructions are a little unclear. I assumed that you filled in the whole box along the lines. I haven't done it yet so I will check. Maybe I will ring the YES helpline so they can help me

Labour are clearly never to be be trusted again, ever, and I used to vote Labour!

The only reason they are starting the count before voting ends is so they can print more yes votes to put into the pile.

Vote NO for Manchester.

Totally agree with you Chris P. This scheme is not the same as London's and it is wrong to keep linking the two.

Equally, red-top buzz phrases such as "Con-Charge" or "Con-Tax" are simply designed to get peoples backs up and railroad them into voting no.

I ask people to read the facts and make an informed decision with all the facts.

Please don't listen to these wild conspiracy theories about more roadworks or men in the night altering traffic light sequences.

Read the facts - Manchester needs better public transport now and not in 15-20 years.

FYI - Just rang the helpline and apparently you can put your cross in either the smaller or larger box, just make sure the cross goes through the smaller box - not such a stupid query.

If you had asked me 12 months ago if a government or a council would systematically rig a vote I would have said the same as some on here, don't be paranoid, this is Britain not Zimbabwe.

However with the bias in the information published by MCC / GMPTA/E, with the spending of tax payers money promoting a yes vote, with the council being elected saying they would never accept a con-charge, then once elected doing 1 u-turn and pushing for a con-charge and more than anything, to see MCC / GMPTA/E who claim they are nuetral and simply want to get information out there, how come they have not publicly condemed the 'I want lower bus fares' adverts.

Put you money where you mouth is GMPTA/E / MCC and publicly clarify these poster which are more than misleading and clearly aimed to get a yes vote when the truth would generate a yes vote. Show us you really are acting in the interests of democracy and fairness.

"The only reason they are starting the count before voting ends is so they can print more yes votes to put into the pile. "

Based on what evidence?

To save time, if you still see anyone still quoting the £3bn figure, then just stop reading.

They obviously aren't interested in the facts.

When they did the poll was there any monitors there? I had a dream that two old dears were walking to the cake shop and the canvasser grabbed them and asked them what they thought of the congestion charge and how they would vote, one of the old dears said to save time I will get the cakes, as she walked away she shouted to her friend do you want a cream donut as soon as she shouted yes, the canvasser to advantage and marked down a yes vote, then she told the old dear she had to hurry on.

I have yet to receive mine but my other half has received hers, as has been said it`s not been made easy by any stretch of the imagination, I`m used to dealing with complicated paperwork and even I had to read it through a few times.

No matter what the result ( which if word on the street is anything to go by will be a resounding NO) Labour have lost my future vote and many around me with the way they have conducted themselves( and all linked to it) with regards to these proposals, deep down I always believed Labour was the party of the working class people of this country, I can now see it clearly isn`t and as for the paranoia, maybe, but I for one certainly don`t trust what`s going on 100%, the sad thing is, it should be beyond reproach.

Rammylad, the publishing of proposals on which you submit a vote is clearly not YES biased - it's a proposal. TIF funding has clearly been set up with the view that it can only be used in schemes which manage transport demand.

That's the proposal put before you, you either like it or you don't, but all these claims of bias and vote rigging are so wide of the mark it's embarrassing for anyone suggesting them.

I urge everyone to study the proposals, see how it impacts on you, and make your own mind up.

Personally, the benefits of investment in Greater Manchester infrastructure at a time of recession are obvious, so that's a YES for me.

Of course I meant "when the truth would generate a no vote....". Doh

what a joke they send you a 2 forms telling u that your vote is secret then link them both with a bar code why do they think that we ewont realise that they have a way to link both vote and signature they will input the number off the bar code into a computer for the signature then thye same bar code off the vote which will connect the 2 so no ones vote is secret why do they need to bar code them if they are secret as they dont have our signatures already they cant prove its ours so why do they needf a bar code except to link the vote with the name anne.comm

Why are the Evening News so wretchedly trying to swing this debate and this vote? This is OBVIOUSLY NOT about congestion charging. It is about TRANSPORT IMPROVEMENTS.

I THINK YOU WILL FIND THAT THE EVENING NEWS PROBABLY FAVOUR THE SCHEME. TO SAY THIS IS NOT ABOUT CHARGING IS A FALLACY. WE WOULD NOT BE GETTING ANY MONEY IF THERE WASN'T A CHARGING ELEMENT. IT IS ABOUT INVESTMENT AND CHARGING

Only a very small number of people will choose to pay charges and travel across zones at peak times.

IF YOU CALL BETWEEN 200,000 & 500,000 A SMALL NUMBER YOU ARE BARKING

This is about turning a pretty mediocre transport system into something fit for the 21st Century.

AGREED

Getting £3 Billion pounds of investment - 50 years worth by normal standards - in four or five years.

1. FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME, IT IS NOT £3BN (DID YOU SEE WHAT I DID THERE, I EXAGERATED HOW MANY TIMES I SAID IT. GOOD REALLY)

2. IF WE GET IT ALL NOW, YOU CAN BET WE GET LESS IN THE OTHER 45 YEARS


This is as important to Manchester's future as the Manchester Ship Canal was in the 19th Century. Built on twin piers.

NO IT ISN'T. NEXT YOU WILL TELLING ME THE WORLD IS WATCHING AND OBAMA APPROVES. NO DOUBT YOU WILL DO THE "WHAT ABOUT OUR CHILDREN" ROUTINE

Penny and ha'peny shares taken up by almost everyone in the cities of Manchester and Salford and those with a good feel for business throughout the region.

A bit like the government is putting up on our behalf in this case.

Plus, that second pier, charges for the users whose goods would flow into and out of the city. Creating an inland port just as we had an inland railhead at a time when these things really mattered to the local economy.


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ - ARE YOU DONE YET? THE SHIP CANAL WAS EVENTUALLY FUNDED THROUGH A MIX OF PRIVATE MONEY AND LOCAL TAXES AS THE TAKE UP OF SHARES DIDN'T COVER THE SPIRALLING COSTS.

Now congestion, air quality, decent passenger transport are what matter.

AND FAMILIES HAVING ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY THEIR BILLS, INCLUDING BIGGER TAXES FROM 2011.

Calling this C-Charge over and over and over again is a great disservice to the debate, As is running the C symbol with every piece. this is nothing like London's scheme. It is much better and much fairer

DEPENDS ON YOUR DEFINITION OF FAIR. LONDON HAS DECENT ALTERNATIVES FOR TRANPSORT WITHIN THE CHARGING ZONE. MANCHESTER WON'T EVEN AFTER THE INVESTMENT

and with massively more transport benefits.

WHY ARE YOU UPSET WHEN THE C-CHARGE IS MENTIONED YET YOU KEEP SAYING MASSIVELY IMPROVED TRANSPORT. THERE ARE MORE IMPROVEMENTS IN THE PIPELINE WITHOUT CHARGING THAN THIS WHOLE SCHEME WILL BRING

Front-loaded passenger benefits.

EH?

Please STOP calling this C-Charge.

REPETITION. POINT DEDUCTED

this is playing into the hands of the selfish naysayers.

I THINK YOU MEAN TAXPAYERS AND WORKERS

Think of our children and our children's children.

I KNEW IT

Vote YES for their health wealth and happiness.

VOTE NO like Edinburgh did. They still got their funding. Labour can't afford to abandon Manchester