The whole scheme is too complicated. With all the exemptions, it leaves it wide open to abuse. All the flaws mean it will cost more money meaning we will pay more tax. It won't reduce "congestion", people will simply pay the charge - so it's an extra tax.

Don't get me wrong, I want investment in our great city, but that should come from general taxation and not in the form of a loan. Our money is being spent in that state wihin a state ... Landon.

With comments like this "We are not expecting staff to fill in additional paperwork" - I must question Laura Roberts's experience of working in the public sector!!
Of course the NHS will be saddled with extra paperwork!!

THe only "bizarre" thing here is the wishful thinking.
The NHS currently has no need to administer this system. If the C-charge came in, they would.
Who do the yes campaign and the NHS think is going to do the work?
It's like the myth of the 9 out of 10 won't pay claim. Apparently only 1 in 10 will pay but the plans anticipate a 25% drop in traffic.

The Vote is still and always will be NO!!!

And another thing, traffic jams hold up the emergency services. Vote yes and join the future.

Quote:
"She said: "We are not expecting staff to fill in additional paperwork, and there will be no impact on frontline clinical staff caring for patients."

No additional paperwork - No 100% discount then. The hospitals back offices will be be in choas. The Charge back office will need to know that the vehicle is exaempt before they issue a ticket for not paying the charge. The hospital will have to work out that all Dr Doolittles patients will not be travelling on Tuesday thru Thursday as they have had to rearrange his schedule so will have to issue new info - for they surely cannot give blanket coverage but only on a day to day basis. Then when your lift says their car is going in to the garage but uncle Fred will take you, they will have to change the details. Then you cannot attened on that day so you ring the office to rearrange appointment.

So who will complete the paperwork to prove that you attended a hospital appointment if not the NHS?

Also this cliam of 'I'll be voting YES because I want cheaper fares'. How much will the bus, train and mertrolink fares be reduced by? A relative of mine is voting 'yes' because he wants cheaper fares but he doesn't know what they will come down by.

Nobody can answer my question about how much the bus fares will be reduce by.

There is a Q&A on the GMPTE website and a question that says what is the impact on public transport fares but when you click on the answer it directs you to something irrelevant.

As for hospital appointmant times when my mother travels in to Christies they might travel in earlier ad go shopping in town. What is here appointment is a 1pm, they drive in from Derbyshire at a time where the cross boundaries at 10am so pay the charge, go shopping first and then have the appointment? Would she not be entitled to a discount because they could argure she should have crossed the boundary at 12 noon to get in tim efor the appointment and not before 10am? They wouldn't choose to go into town were it not for the appointment at Christies, but equally the council could say that she has to come straight in and out and if she chooses to come in a shop she should pay the charge as that was her choice.

She has asked her consultant and has phoned Christies but they can't give her an answer.

The fares won’t go down for long (if at all). Public transport is private and shareholder driven. Look at the trains for instance, more passengers have led to higher fares.
Stop the gravy train for the old boys and girls network (who will claim charges on expenses anyway). Vote NO and stop the empire being built (which will drain the money away).

Do you really believe the politicians whose job it is to sell this and receive rewards from Gordon?

I use the NHS hospitals regulary and I know how stretched they are, even the receptionists.
and why should we have our movements logged, as another reader what if you have to go by a different car at the last minute.
I VOTE NO !!!

But do you know what the cheaper fares will be? If I pay £3.70 on the bus now to come into town now what will it cost if the cahrge comes in?

They say 9 in 10 won't pay but a quick check in my office confirmed that 5 out of 7 of us will pay it. Must be a fluke 'eh ?

I'm voting NO to this " you can have a loan and be grateful for it" scheme. Like a poster below says, the transport improvements should come from general taxation like the rest of the country receives. I see many in Labour Manchester changing their vote in the general election over this issue. People will only take so much from the Town Hall toadies of our English hating, unelected PM.

Bus fares will come down for the first year then they will start to rise fast to fill the fat cats pockets .Its a money making systen to make money "END OF STORY".Its not for the people of manchester...

I wonder if there has been any studies done on the affects of say a cancer patient attending Christies for Chemo 3 days a week,who though an oversight forget to notify the Charge Office - the thought of a £160 penalty notice dropping through the letter box is bad enough but for say six visits that is nearly £1000 they will want.

Yep, the charging scheme seem well thought out!

What rubbish !!! And the pro congestion charge literature/adverts in general, I don`t know ANYBODY that wants it.

Had to laugh at the pro congestion charge billboards too, the one along the lines of" If I`m late on site I could lose my job" well like everybody else leave for work earlier you fool, it`s not difficult is it !!!

Can I just point out the the ad says:

"I want cheaper bus fares"


Not that fares will be cheaper.

Does anyone know if you cross the two zones in the morning and the two in the evening without paying do you get 4 £160 penalty notices or one?

The voting system is a complete joke in that those who will have to pay the charge will vote no and those that wont will vote yes. Can anyone else see the irony in that those who will benefit will pay nothing towards the improvements!!!

I think I have figured out the 'I want cheaper bus fares' poster.

We recieved our 'this is how much we are doing for Bury via TIF' booklet this morning. The fact it just talks about station improvements in central manchester is another much long post.

Anyway back to the cheaper bus fairs thing. Within the booklet we recieved this morning (which was not printed on recycled paper), it does say that the lowest paid' i.e. statotory low paw not manchester city council increased low pay, a 20% discount will be available for two years.

I have therefore concluded that the lass in the photo has a low paid job and therefore will recieve the 20% discount. This asumes she does not work for MCC.

Non the less the advert is at best misleading but the ASA can do nowt about it, yet the GMPTE when I spoke to them yesterday assured me all adverts have to be regulated, yet he then refused to say who by. hmmmm! Con or not, you decide.

Albert it is an advert by GMPTA saying 'I want cheaper bus fares that is why I'll be voting yes'. In other words GMPTA are saying that if you vote yes you will get cheaper fares. That i sclearly the inference.

If they say that it isn't thier opinion and there won't be actually cheaper fares but they were only quoting a misinformed students aspiration then can the yes campaign have ads stating 'I'd like a free Ferrari to drive to work on so I'm voting yes'?

Same thing.

If there won't be cheaper fares then it is false advertising.

Laura Roberts,the idea that "there will be no impact on frontline clinical staff caring for patients",does not sit well with me.If the frontline staff have to pay up to £1200 p.a to get to and from work then there is an impact....I also read your blog dated 05/08/08 on the Facebook site "NHS Manchester".Especially when you chaired a meeting on TIF,with a GMPTE presentation and input from Mr Bernstein....Its nice to see you were given a balanced account of the con-charge.

Why the hell should you even have to get permission to drive to your own medical appointment without being charged? The last thing you need is to be messing about with registration numbers for the privilege of trying to get treatment.

A cancer sufferer does not need the hassle of then getting a Penalty Charge Notice through the door when the NHS and/or council has messed up the registration information and having to appeal. Which will happen in numerous cases - guaranteed.

We recieved our this is what TIF means for you in Bury, today.

The facts: -

1) The booklet tells us that the metrolink will be three times larger. The Truth, the fail to tell us how big it would have been without TIF funding. Conclusion - The booklet is misleading.

2) The booklet tells us double length trams will run form bury at peak time. The truth is they fail to mention if these peak times will match the charging times or if it will be just 1 or 2 extra carriages. The reality, if you catch the tram at Bury or Radcliffe you always get a seat anyway, the double length trams only benefit those inside the outer and inner rings and does not really benefit those outside the outer ring. Conclusion, this benefits the city centre travelers yet it is those who live furthest away who pay more in congestion chraging.

3) The booklet says there will be daytime services between bury and bolton. The reality, we need direct services from all towns to all towns. The idea of the 'interchange' is flawed as for half of your journey from Rammy to Bolton you are travelling in the opposite direction, TIF will not improve bus journey times. Also we already have Bury to Bolton tram but as the journey does not involve a con-charge then it is a benefit that those who have to drive into manchester can not make use of but are paying for. Conclusion, a waste of time and money and does not help those travelling across the massive charging rings to find alternative tranport.

4) They talk at last about the Rawtenstall - Manchester rail link. However they accept they are nly prepared to look at the feasibility and that if it was feasible the local council tax would be used to create the link and not the TIF. Conclusion, The TIF is delivering no alternative to the car for those living in Rammy, Rawtenstall, Summerseat etc. Therefore as with Trafford those residents should not have to pay the con-charge as the TIF has delivered no improvements.

5) They list the cycling improvments for the good people of Bury and they list, the new cycle lan in Cheetham Hill, Rainscough and Heaton Park. Conclusion, this has nothing to do with Bury and therefore again, no benefit to those in Bury or further afield who travel through Bury.

5) Park and Rides will be doubled in size. Well given there are no park and rides in Bury then the conclusion is that there will be 2 x No park and rides in Bury.

6) the metrolink map shows the whole network, i.e. including non TIF improvements and is therefore misleading. Conclusion, the booklet is a con.

7) The outer ring now means we would have to pay the charge to drop our kids off with our grandparents, 200 yards inside the outer zone, so thats thelast time they look after them and enjoy their childhood and development.

8) The document tells us all about the improvements to Manchester Piccadilly, Victoria and Oxford Rad railway stations and how that is good for Bury!!!

Given this is the booklet to convince us to vote yes, it really needed to be full of facts, I don't know why I am surpirsed, but I am, it is simply still full of hot air, ambiguity and misleading statements and shows without doubt that Bury will get nothing at all yet will pay the most from congestion charging.

Audenshaw Bob wrote:

"If there won't be cheaper fares then it is false advertising. "

All you will have to do for two years (thats the length of the 20% discount as far as I know) is to get your employer to say that you are on the miniumum wage then tell the Charge company, they will then possibly have to issue you with a pass - which must be able to be read by the Tram Ticket machines and then they will take 20% off your fare. If you get a rise and don't tell em - or if you buy a ticket for the Mrs Bob with the same pass and she is on more than the minimum wage I can see a SWAT team at the end of the street.

Do over 60's get a discount if they have to travel in the morning peak time, say to Hospital, or the unwaged, the worker-student on day release one day a week. The future transport leaflet does not say.

Rammylad, I live in Bury and didn't receive anything. i hope they are not going to do this with the ballot papers.

Why should motorists have to pay for public transport improvments? If public transport users want improvement, then they should pay for them, not charge the motorist. As I have said in another post, the scheme will fail. It will either NOT generate the money to make the repayment, or NOT suceed to reduce congestion, of which there is very little, once the latest reoadworks have finished.