it does puzzle me when we've had a consultation and they've changed the goalposts time and time again that now they have to have a debate?
surely if they think its so good that it'll win they could just give out all the information in the first place.

but no they only tell you the good bits.

20% discount for low income workers (minimum wage only)

Bus fares and charged capped (only 2 years)

HGV's exempt (not smaller trucks and vans though)

i thought the time for debating was in the early stages of the proposal not when the vote is so close. vote no unless you want to pay whether your a motorist or not !!!

Debate is not related to change. Sir Richard & Hoon have stated that if we don;'t follow this pre determined plan, there is no extra cash. There never was an option so the consultation was pointless.

Typical that Gordon Brown couldn't bring himself to say in parliament it was an all or nothing scenario. He had to skirt round the answer to John Leech.

There appear to be billions about to bale out the economy yet we still are being told the is "no altenative" to this CHARGE. Its regressive taxation and should be voted down. It will be too.

Vote YES for the Manchester POLL TAX!!!

Our ecconomy is on the edge of freefall and this idiot brown is still borrowing yet even more money? its time to pull the money strings a little tighter.

The only sensible vote is a 'NO VOTE' throw it on the scrap heap with the NuLab fools.

the main question that needs to be asked is after 10 years of labour government.

where has all the money everyone has paid in their taxes actually gone?

because its no gone on the NHS, Police or public transport that they said they would do in their manifesto.

Ive just had a newspaper size leaflet posted through my door about the congestion charge? why waste all of this taxpayers money on these very expensive leaflets,Labour are great at borrowing lots of money to waste.Are we really going to trust them with all this money to run a tram system?

Banks have neraly collapsed, the country is in recession, businesses are closing, jobs are being lost and the council wants to charge us £1250 per annum to get to work. Talk about commercial suicide.

We have a city that has 35% of all apartments lying empty, businesses closing down or moving out and the council is doing it's utmost to discourage people from coming in. My parents used to come for the Christams Markets but have decided not to this year. Not because the congestion charge is in yet of course but they have decided to go somewhere that wants them.

Mt dad said he doesn't need the mither at his age. He used to drive in down Hyde Road but they have put a bus lane there, put cameras in, the road is single lane near Tesco due to raodworks, there are less car parkig spaces, the traffic wardens will have you if you are aminute over - he doesn't need the hassle so they are driving to Leeds to do all of their Christmas shopping, going to a panto in Liverpool.

This si what people will do, they will vote with ther feet. He used to own his own company in Bredbury employing 36 people and he said that he would be moving it out NOW to Warrington if he was still running it.

I really don't think some people realise the efect this will have yet as long as that student type on the advert gets lower bs fars we;ll be alright then won't we?

jay b

its gone on wars and immigration, and bailing out banks that have been very greedy and were the ones bailing them out, but we wont see anything from that!!!

This is not like last minute electioneering to sway the "Undecided Voter"...People have already checked the impact,and their finances.This has taken place long before Mr.Stringer made any comments,and Mr Leese re-appearing on the radar...Why the debate now ? Well lets not waste an opportunity..will someone ask Mr Leese how many Man United Fans will ever vote for anything he stands for...

Viz Top Tip to beat the C-Charge

Buy another car. Park it near the congestion ring. Drive your car to the ring. Park Up & Walk over the charging zone. Carry on in second car. No charge paid. (If crossing two zones, you will need a third car). Job Done, No money to the AGMA and you have done your bit to revive the car industry.

OR

Vote NO!

After Stringer was so wrong on public opinion calling for an inquiry in to police driving standards following the crash in Oldham, I may have to change my vote to yes as I have no faith in him.

" After Stringer was so wrong on public opinion calling for an inquiry in to police driving standards following the crash in Oldham, I may have to change my vote to yes as I have no faith in him. "

And this afternoon I will be removing my nose because I don't like my face.

Someone better reset Phelan - she's stuck again.

"I'm absolutely confident people will vote yes!"
"I'm absolutely confident people will vote yes!"
"I'm absolutely confident people will vote yes!"
"I'm absolutely confident people will vote yes!"
"I'm absolutely confident people will vote yes!"

Yeah, of course they'll be voting themselves a new tax.

As someone who runs a Transport Company, we charge our customer extra for making deliveries within the London congestion zone. This includes the charge that we have paid and an adminstration charge to cover our costs. The Manchester congestion zone would be 80 Square Miles. The largest in the world which would mean every transport company in Europe who delivery goods within the Manchester zone will pass the charges on and an administartion charge and this will make goods more expensive in Manchester so not only will you have to pay more to travel into Manchester, you will also may more for your everything your purchase.

Clive Churchward BA(Hons) MCIT MILT MIMgt MITM

Waste your time listening to this debate if you want to, but the result of the referendum is a forgone conclusion. The No voters will win.

When this c charge thing has been formally dead and buried by the vote we need a public inquiry as to how such a cynical, money grasping scheme was ever dreamt up in the first place, and just how such a lot of public money was wasted on pushing it.

I hope that people will realise that they will not get much of an improvement in the transport system in exchange for voting YES to the Congestion Tax. Labour never deliver so why should they change now.

Vote NO, Vote NO, Vote NO.

I'm always bemused when someone puts their qualifications and trade association abbreviations after their name. I also got a BA (hon) and a Masters but dropped them after my title once I hit thirty.

I know many lawyers and barristers and they drop the 'I have a dgree' thing because we know that they have one because of their position.

Anyway, good points on the adding the charge onto goods and services. This is what will happen. A friend of mine has a small retail business in the city and her business delivers inside and outside of the M60 and her supplies come from outside. As her shop opens at 8am and the stock has a shelf life of two days she needs to have her suppliers get to her by 8am thus crossing the boundaries. Her suppliers can't use the bus or tram or deliver earlier or later so they will be stung.

She employs six people and can't afford to pay them the extra £1250 and they can't get the bus as they are all younf woman who have a 25 minute walk or so at the other end which in winter particularly they are not keen on. Two of them drive because they need to be home at a specific time to collects the children from childminders. Buses take lomger so they would have to pay an extra £20 for the childminder.

She doesn't want to lose these people but they are looking at jobs closer to home so she is considering getting rid of one of them and raising the wages of the rest to cover.

I oppose this charge in the strongest terms. I am lucky in that I retired at 40 and have the means to pay but there are many who will suffer and I see this a s a nail in the coffin for the economic growth of Manchester. Warrington is and well benefit from this. The traffic will go elsewhere because the jobs will be elsewhere. Never trust a councillor (most are ex teachers an social workers) to know anything about commerce.

ebble Manchester, I totally agree. When this gets voted out, a tax bill should be presented to Ms Phelan to pay for their own propaganda campain

Vote No!

"Waste your time listening to this debate if you want to, but the result of the referendum is a forgone conclusion. The No voters will win."

The debate may be a waste of time and nothing more than a chance for Sir Dick to shout down a few more people but sadly the vote is not a forgone conclusion. It is going to be very close and you know how reliable postal voting is.

Make sure you use your vote.

I agree it is ridiculous to keep mentioning your qulaifications. I would never be so brazen (Oops!)

Now call me stupid but my understanding in layman terms is that the main reason for the congestion charge is to fund the repayment of the massive loan given to the people of Greater Manchester by the government to finance the restructure of public transport in the region,

Am I correct?

If so then can somebody please answer me the below points?

I’m assuming that it is common sense to be in opinion that the need for new and improved public transport is to ease congestion i.e. get people’s personal transport off the road and get people onto public transport therefore promoting cleaner air and improving travelling times amongst other things. This is an admirable vision and in a perfect world if achieved everybody would use the new public transport and there would be virtually no traffic on the roads other than buses and trams. If this was achieved who would then pay the loan back? If everybody is to use public transport then there will be nobody to pay the charge would there? So what happens then?

In reality though I am not stupid enough (a little stupid some may say) to think that everybody is going to abandon their cars. I think I can safely say that no matter how much improvement we may receive within our transport infrastructure people will still use their cars especially if they are in the opinion that their journeys are essential. Now I know a few of you will squirm at the word “essential” but lets get a reality check, I am a proud Mancunian and want what is best for my city but, for arguments sake, you will never convince me that a working family with children will find it easier to complete their morning run of dropping baby at nursery and then travelling into the city and the reverse at night on public transport, please bear in mind as well that this is not the Mediterranean this is Manchester and it will more than likely be raining during the winter months. Now this is just one example of many and the reason (or excuse as some may argue) for sticking with personal transport, seems valid enough I hope you will agree. My point is that people will continue to use their vehicles as they feel it is a necessity and will be subject to an unnecessary tax as they may never use the service that they are being asked to fund, even if we discover the perfect world where everybody feels moral obliged to use public transport, who is, as I stated previously, going to pay for the loan.

I started my comments with a layman term and I will finish with one. Would you pay for your next door neighbours Satellite subscription if you never got the chance to watch the programmes?

Giles,I understand your comments on the letters after name...It can,on one hand be seen as pretentious.On the other hand,a re-inforcement of their belief based on what their qualified area is..or for others a reason to extract urine,and mimic said letters...Many of the elder Barristers drop the degree thingy because they gained it from a "Polytechnic"...Not OxBridge dear boy....They remain suitably qualified, but wish to keep silent due to the snobbery that exists within the Legal profession..However your input,from the business model you provided is priceless..Voters take Heed.Vote NO !

I think a debate is pointless at this stage as most people have already decided how they are going to vote.
If this is indeed a congestion charge, why are HGV's exempt ? They add to the so called congestion. The constant chopping and changing by Lease and Co. just smacks of desperation in a pathetic attempt to appease as many people as possble and push this through. That's why I'm voting NO - lack of trust and faith in local and central goverment.