NEW Transport Secretary Geoff Hoon says that if the people of Greater Manchester reject a congestion charge scheme the £2.75bn transport plan will collapse.
Mr Hoon made it clear how pivotal the pay-as-you-drive project was to securing funding.
The bid would see more than £2.75bn ploughed into transport schemes, including £318m to set up a peak hour, weekday-only congestion charge. Some £1.2bn of the total would be in the form of a loan, paid back over 30 years out of profits from the charge.
Ahead of a visit to Manchester today - the first since he replaced Bolton MP Ruth Kelly - Mr Hoon told the M.E.N there was no `Plan B'.
He said: "If there was a `no' there would be no central government funding."
The question being used in the referendum to decide whether Greater Manchester gets a congestion charge has created controversy because it will make no direct mention of the congestion charge - or the transport improvements of almost £3bn it would unlock.
Instead, people will simply be asked in the referendum: `Do you agree with the proposals?'
Gordon Brown has said that the question was framed on legal advice. Mr Hoon said people should be free to make up their minds and the question was a matter for local authorities.
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Click here to read TIF documents released under the Freedom of Information Act.
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Hoon: No c-charge plan B
November 13, 2008
Transport Secretary Geoff Hoon
Showing comments 1 to 25 and replies | View All
Jay B, oldham (13/11/2008 at 09:32)
so its not "that or nothing" like they make out it is!
Pentest 2, Hyde (13/11/2008 at 09:40)
polkyb, Middleton (13/11/2008 at 09:40)
NS (13/11/2008 at 09:40)
To take one example, the number of peak time seats on rails services provided by central government funding is 4000, whereas TiF funding would provide for 2950.
The information put out by GMPTE and the Yes campaign disgracefully tries to mingle these two together to give the impression that all 6950 are provided by TiF.
The same goes for Metrolink extensions to Rochdale and Ashton which the TiF info suggests are thanks to TiF whereas the money has already been provided.
The same goes for school buses etc etc...
Audenshaw Bob (13/11/2008 at 09:47)
So one minute we are on the verge of catosrophe but if we vote 'no' then they walk away from a 'city on the verge of catosrphe.'. Very compassionate. If they can just walk away that easily then maybe the problem isn't so bad after all. Are they really willing to let their constitueants choke to death on all these fumes and stand by and watch it happen?
It's like meeting a starving person desperate for food and you have plenty of food on you but charge them for it despite giving plenty to another man for free (London). When the starving man says he can't pay you walk away with plenty of food in your own pockets and watch the man die.
Nice people.
matt t, tameside (13/11/2008 at 09:50)
Fortunately, it seems likely that the current administration will not be around in 2013.
Sick of this Government, MADchester (13/11/2008 at 09:58)
Vote NO, you know it makes sense
PW, Manchester (13/11/2008 at 10:00)
Sean Corker MART (13/11/2008 at 10:08)
If there genuinely is no plan B then neither Leese, Bernstein nor Hoon are fit to hold office.
citycentre, manchester (13/11/2008 at 10:20)
actually we are being offered the food now, and only being asked to pay when it has been eaten.
if we choose not to accept it then thats up to us, and they can keep the food for themself
polkyb, Middleton (13/11/2008 at 10:40)
But we're not being told how much it will cost.
Jay B, oldham (13/11/2008 at 10:41)
if you want to look at it like that then also add.
we still get the food. just not the feast that they're bribing us with in order to charge us for it.
they use the word nothing which is just not true!
the word nothing is wrong? we get standard funding. which we pay for in our taxes. yes albeit not what labour promised to give. but we get something.
so we get something and not nothing!
correct this please MEN!
it sounds like some plot from robin hood!
stivh, Urmston (13/11/2008 at 11:00)
Read the Facts (at least those that the TIF group are willing to print) and you will see that over 70% of the Funding is already in place.
If nothing else what we all will get is a better road management system as this has truly proved just how chaotic and wasteful the present Traffic Management Group(s) running the system so far actually are.
As for all the Pro Groups constantly going on about the Selfish car drivers etc please remember that at present over 50 billion pounds is taken in Taxes for the privelege and of that only 4.5 Billion is re invested in the whole UK road structure.
So Mr Hoon what you are suggesting is that for one year only this present Government is not willing to investment 3 billion from that other 46.5 Billion collected to assist and invest in one of Englands top 3 Cities.
We proud folk living in the North really appreciate your concern and appreciation for our welfare.
Shame there was a local Election going on I am sure you would CHANGE OUR TUNE.
Ghandi's, Flip Flops (13/11/2008 at 11:14)
For Mr Hoon to say this, he contradicting his own governments transport policy.
The labour government's transport policy is largely based on the Eddington report
published a couple of years ago, and included proposals for national road pricing etc.
It also gives guidance of how to priotise transport schemes, recommending that schemes which would generate a return of 2,3,4 times the amount spent should be the priority. The one prime location outside of London, that this is the case, is Manchester. If TIF was rejected Manchester would still get central government funding for transport, otherwise the government would be cutting its nose off to spite its face, and going against its own transport policy. To
say otherwise is just pure scaremongering.
BillyJ (13/11/2008 at 11:17)
There may not be a current plan, but they will go away and come up with one, thats how councils work.
Peter Roberts, Telford (13/11/2008 at 11:19)
Not all these NO's were from a referendum because these local authorities recognised a CONgestion charge was not right for them.
These cities are moving forward with their transport plans - albeit in a different way, but saying NO in Manchester will not mean the end of public transport investments.
Saying YES will bring the biggest congestion charge in the world and the biggest experiment in exclusion zones ever attempted.
Trumpetman21 (13/11/2008 at 11:21)
"correct this please MEN!"
You're 'avin a larf intcha? Anything that paints the Toll Tax in a good light and frightens simpletons into voting yes for fear of 'missing out' is all gravy to the MEN.
Very sad.
Peter Roberts, Telford (13/11/2008 at 11:24)
14 comments so far and not a single one in favour of this scheme.
There will be something deeply wrong if the referendum returns a YES on Dec 12th.
Albert J Beancounter, At Home (13/11/2008 at 11:29)
(For the PRO group RFA (Regional Funding Allocation)is the money we will get anyway)
Greater Manchester needs TIF (13/11/2008 at 11:29)
Which is naff all. What has that ever brought us?
Kevin Peel, Manchester (13/11/2008 at 11:32)
polkyb - you said we've had £2bn in the last 30 years - this means we'll get £2.75bn ALL AT ONCE.
You must be crackers if you're voting no.
polkyb, Middleton (13/11/2008 at 11:35)
14 comments so far and not a single one in favour of this scheme. "
There are only two or three people on here that support the bid, and I suspect they only do so they can have an argument.
When the YES camp find the story in an hour or so, expect a flood of propoganda by a couple of others pretending to be more people than they actually are.
we deserve better (13/11/2008 at 11:36)
Not quite sure of your food analogy, I certainly see no feast laid out before us.
The TIF bid is more like having to pay high street prices for the 'privilege' of rummaging through the bins of a budget supermarket for something to eat.
Sean Corker MART (13/11/2008 at 11:40)
Who said that?
Roger Jones in 2007 - Nothing changes
polkyb, Middleton (13/11/2008 at 11:47)
Tram system from Bury to Altrincham then on to Eccles, Rochdale via Oldham and Denton along with all that comes with it for one. Do you have a clue or is it in the post?
"polkyb - you said we've had £2bn in the last 30 years - this means we'll get £2.75bn ALL AT ONCE.
You must be crackers if you're voting no. "
No Kev, you will be getting about £1.2bn and most of that will be squandered on an extension to Metrolink. The restwill be going on setting up a new tax and "a contingency fund".
Peter Roberts... Here are the trolls now, just in time.