Police brass band costs £200,000

Rob Cooper

September 23, 2008

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GOOD CONDUCT? Police chief defends band spending

A POLICE chief has defended spending of £200,000 of taxpayers' money on his force's brass band.

New figures show Greater Manchester Police spent £201,862 over nine years, while £750,000 was spent on the country's 19 police bands.

The GMP budget is believed to be the biggest. £188,444 went on travel expenses and refreshments for the 39 band members, £9,751 was spent on instruments and a laptop, while £3,665 went on uniforms.

The information was revealed following Freedom of Information requests made to all 44 police forces. Three forces - including Lancashire - did not give any answers.

A spokesman for the Taxpayers' Alliance criticised the funding. He said: "This is a large amount of money to spend when there's not enough money to pay front line police officers their promised pay increase. The public would prefer this money spent on fighting crime."

But Assistant Chief Constable Rob Taylor said the band has an important role in promoting the force.

He said: "They are a valuable asset and as part of their work they are often out in our communities, supporting a wide variety of events. The band's average spend per year is £25,233. The band brings in £8,000 to £10,000 per year from engagements to assist in running costs.

Only a small amount of the members are serving officers, many are police staff and retired officers and they do not get a salary for playing in the band."

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MPs gravy train, UK (24/09/2008 at 06:52)

Nothing surprises me any more when it comes to GMP.

Gordon Brown pledged yesterday to spend every pound of public money like it was his own. He needs to wake up and smell the coffee. The country is heading for a recession and a bit of belt tightening across all public bodies wouldn't go amiss. Zero percentage cost increase on local tax raised for GMP for me next year. That will focus their minds

Rugbygirl 2605, urmston (24/09/2008 at 07:42)

Surely a Police Brass band would be a purely voluntary affair?

Paul B (24/09/2008 at 08:10)

WHO REPLACES THE OFFICERS WHEN THEY ARE OFF ON THEIR TRAVELS ITH THE BAND BECAUSE THEY DONT ALL DO IT ON DAYS OFF AND SOME TAKE TIME OFF THEIR SHIFTS TO ATTEND WITH THE BAND.
MAYBE NEXT TIME A PENSIONER RINGS 999 COS SOMEONE HAS SMASHED HER WINDOWS SHE MIGHT BE TOLD THERES NO-ONE TO ATTEND COS THE OFFICERS ARE PLAYING WITH THEIR INSTRUMENTS!

POLICE FORCE? MORE LIKE POLICE FARCE!!

brummyview (24/09/2008 at 09:37)

The REAL story is why 3 police forces refused to comply with the FOI request.How can they operate OUTSIDE of the law.Don`t let them sneak away just because they don`t feel like answering to the public.They must have something to hide, can`t wait for the story to break.Don`t give up easily.

Mark,Radcliffe. (24/09/2008 at 09:43)

The Director of Music is Mr Geoff Williams,who joined The Police as a full time Officer in 1995,from his previous post as a Regimental Bandmaster.Is this person now on a 13 years PC's wage or is he being paid at a different rate ? Because I think this role came with the rank of Superintendent;which no doubt will be filed with the Taxman,and all the deductions that go with it.

Paul B (24/09/2008 at 09:43)

RUBYGIRL

IT IS VOLUNTARY BUT THEY DO GET TIME OFF OK (AT FULL PAY MAY I ADD) TO ATTEND BAND PROCESSIONS ETC. SOME DO IT ON THEIR DAYS OFF HOWEVER WHEN I WAS IN GMP AS A PC, SOME OFFICERS WERE FOREVER HAVING TIME OFF TO GO TO BAND.
GMP STINKS, IT HAS DONE FOR A WHILE BUT IS GETTING WORSE!!

trixiefoofoo (24/09/2008 at 10:22)

This is a very misleading article. The actual cost of the band per year is £25K. But they raise up to £10K, thus nearly halving this. Not the £200K the headline suggests.

As for the rest of the comments, the band in no way impacts on frontline policing as none of the band memebers are frontline staff. If they were, they would have to have leave auhorised like anyone else.

Sensational journalism yet again.

Hamish Macbeth, Whitefield (24/09/2008 at 10:26)

By this logic - perhaps we should get rid of the Royal Marines Band - and send them all to Iraq. Perhaps we should get rid of the red arrows too - no more "trooping of the colour" - I am sure there are a whole host of other ceremonies that could be got rid of to save cost.
But what price to we out on history and tradition...
The band are a public asset - there are better savings that can be made in GMP - such as putting back of the front line the batallions of diversity officers, statistics and compliance officers and other posts created by the all controlling ZaNu Labour.

Enigma, Trafford (24/09/2008 at 10:49)

Hamish, the big difference is that The Band of Royal Marines are all trained medics and take up this role in times of conflic and war, they do the job they were trained to do and do it well.

I agree with your sentiments though. The government grade the different Police Forces on detection rates alone, so the Bosses forget that patrolling and prevention are better tactics as this does not show them in a favourable light.
They are far happier to let the crimes happen and then try and sort it out after the horse has bolted! that is why we see less and less officers on the streets.

It is not down to the real cops at street level but the bosses and the politicians that have taken over and ruined policing!

Paul B (24/09/2008 at 10:50)

As for the rest of the comments, the band in no way impacts on frontline policing as none of the band memebers are frontline staff. If they were, they would have to have leave auhorised like anyone else.

???? TWO LADS ON MY RESPONSE SHIFT WERE BAND MEMBERS. WHEN THEY HAD A BAND MEETING AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON SHIFT, THEY NEVER USED LEAVE ENTITLEMENT. SUPPOSE ITS WHO YOU KNOW!!!

Barney Gumball (24/09/2008 at 12:19)

How many PCSO's could you buy with that tidy sum...?

Barney Gumball (24/09/2008 at 12:20)

I was inspired to give up my life of crime after hearing the Police Brass Bandsman play 'The Birdie Song'

Pippa, Manchester (24/09/2008 at 12:40)

£188,444 went on travel expenses and refreshments for the 39 - Where the hell did they go and what on earth did they eat ? That's £15703.67 per month = £402.66 per member!!!!!!

Mark,Radcliffe. (24/09/2008 at 12:48)

Paul B...I can fully understand your anger...As such,might I suggest to the Gr.Manchester Public that whenever this band is playing in your area,the guy waving the baton is a "serving Police Officer"...Dont be afraid to interrupt whatever is being played...Report the incident directly to him.You will have witnesses (audience),he is duty bound to deal with it,or have someone allocated to it..Dont accept "I'm busy".He has sworn an Oath of Allegience,whose wording does not include anything remotely connected to music...Furthermore why does the people of Gr Manchester require a "Big band"?,a Brass Band or a Wind band...This has become an expense too far,and not justifiable.Personally I prefer the sound of several Police dogs barking..

the beer baron (24/09/2008 at 13:28)

Thought opera singing would be more up the old bill's street. There's plenty of them that look like luciano pavarotti anyway (when he was alive and at his most rotund - not now obviously).

smittyh, Blackley, Manchester (24/09/2008 at 13:34)

I work for GMP and have seen the band in action many times. They are a credit to the force and are good value for money.

The headline in this story is really misleading because it suggests that it costs £200 grand a year to run the band, when that is how much it has cost over the past decade. It's in the wrong tense.

The band is fantastic and anybody who likes a brass band should go and see them if they get the chance as the band is one of the best. Most of the people in it aren't coppers anyway, so I don't really see what your point is Paul. I would respectfully suggest that, given your agressive attitude in your posts that GMP is probably better off without you.

Mr Humphries, BIG BLUE CITY., Manchester (24/09/2008 at 14:59)

I love brass bands and when I was a kid I would run after the Salvation army to listen to them, Even if it is the tax payers money you need tradition. whether its the coal miners or who ever they are good to listen to it's better than rap but not disco.

smittyh, Blackley, Manchester (24/09/2008 at 15:39)

Pippa - it's not fifteen grand per month, you've misread the headline. Which isn't your fault as it's really misleading cos I initially read it exactly the same way! The figure of £188,444 is over nine years, so it works out at twenty grand a year, or £1,744 a month, or £44 per member per month. Which isn't very much really.

Mark,Radcliffe. (24/09/2008 at 16:10)

Dear Smittyh,take a minute and try to understand Paul B's frustration...along with other tax-payers....GMP on its website lauds itself for having a Brass band,a Swing band and a Wind band...You say you work for GMP,you write as a person who is not a frontline officer...Now move on to the elderly female in Partington,over the weekend,who had to wait up all night for an officer to attend...The Officer who was attacked on Oldham Street when Rangers were in town..Now Smittyh you are so efficient in the financial breakdown of the Bandsmen...how many Police dogs would that equate to on duty if the Band were eradicated?..Or did Mr Taylor eradicate the Dog Section,thus endangering officers lives,to ensure the band survived..You may think I am anti-band...yes I am..I am not musical either..But I lost all respect for that ensemble when they played Debussy whilst in a parade through Moss Side.The era was shortly after the Moss Side riots,the piece...... So any thoughts now Mr Taylor et al ?

Just a critic, Mancs (24/09/2008 at 17:39)

For that price it would pay for a officer on the streets per month!!

But then again the brass band has prevented so much crime.........

GreyRay, Southport (24/09/2008 at 17:55)

I've never seen a copper beat anyone with a trumpet.
I've never seen a copper with a trumpet. So why does it coast so much. Does it cost the Salvation Army the same as well. I think if they want to play pay, for it themselves.

John Chapman (24/09/2008 at 20:26)

I believe many of the comments on this page are raised in ignorance or through a misunderstanding of the facts. The headline is erroneous for a start - as many of you have stated that it seems to misrepresent the costs which are in actual fact - around around £15,000 per annum. Surely a small price to pay for the enjoyment this band (and its music) brings to its audiences in the local area. In the case of the GMP, it is a concert band, not a brass band and there is more than a subtle difference. Most players volunteer to play and do sometimes take time off their normal (non-police) work with loss of pay to support important musical events. None of this features in this article, or in the views of the less-well informed who present the usual arguments that would turn the UK into a cultural desert. Sandy Gold.

Mark,Radcliffe. (24/09/2008 at 21:13)

Dear John Chapman..you can wax lyrical about their music...those are the sounds the GMP bosses like..Never in the key of dissent...Let them look upon the Wall of those who died on duty,none above Inspector...Nor a bandsman either....Time to rethink resources.

PW, Manchester (25/09/2008 at 07:07)

I can't understand the objections to a Police brass band. It is tradition, gives identity and acts as a good public relations tool. There is bound to be some cost, but as long as benefits outweigh those, I don't see a problem.

How about one in every precinct or street corner to drive away the hoodies?

Pippa, Manchester (25/09/2008 at 13:09)

Smittyh - now I've reread the article I agree with you - couldn't be the MEN having a go at GMP again could it? Not with a headline like that, surely?

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