Tell you what lets put the boundry around Manchester Town Hall, because it ain't going to work.

So Greengate is special is it ? and everyone workimg there should be exempt according to Oldham Council ?

It will never be fair to large numbers of people all around the city.

I predict the "NO" votes will have it. Let's just have the vote and consign this crazy scheme to the bin. It's good the vote will come in the credit crunch and probable recession as the majority will never vote for something that will cost them even more money.

and they just thought of this now? have they been asleep for the last few years?

Quote:

"THE ring of the proposed Manchester congestion charge zone should be moved to save families and businesses thousands"


Any council on the boundary should have similar concerns.
Here in the Peoples Republic of Tameside anyone going to the Ashton's Snipe Retail and Industrial park will have the same problem.
A wider view shows that house prices and businesses values will also be effected by their location in the same district.

Hypocrites or what. Come on Oldham. You voted Yes for the charge because you wanted the investment. Now you want to change the rules so that you are less affected.

It won't get through the public vote anyway.

This would be the same councilor who was shoving propaganda into people’s hands in this report.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/video/hprymc/15/2/publicationdate/2008/09/MEN%20news

It would seem one by one local councilors and MP's(re- DENTON MP Andrew Gwynne) are now trying to catch the headlines within certain areas. Yet they have previously backed the scheme.

Running scared are we?

Next time one of you comes knocking at my door asking for the vote, I'll be asking how you voted on a new tax costing me over £1200 per year.

I popped into one of those mobile "sell-the-C-charge-to-the-proles" booths the other day (sorry, I meant "consultation" trailers), and mentioned amongst other things about how A-U-L town centre is outside the M60, but the Snipe retail park, IKEA and the new Ashton Moss development including Police HQ, were inside the M60. The chap I spoke to said that this particular area was in fact going to be exempt from the C-charge for precisely thsi reason. Really?? How come no-one has mentioned this in the full glare of the media? Or at least mentioned this to the good people of Ashton?

He also mentioned that if the referendum in December comes back as a NO, then they may well try to introduce a C-charge using just the inner zone, and the penny dropped: they are pitching a massive outer zone in the full expectation that this will be quashed, and they can propose a smaller zone as a "compromise", which is what they were aiming for all along.

Yes, move the whole boundary into separate ones within 200 yards of each of the 10 Town Halls. Make it £50 a day - all day, and £100 for chauffeur-driven vehicles. Oh and ban the Councillors from claiming it all back from the Council Tax payers.

yet again! goal posts are being changed and boundaries moved to win over more yes votes!
no one in their right minds should be voting yes in oldham. we dont get much from the TIF. just a huge extra burden of cost to out wallets and purses!

the council and howard sykes are letting the people of oldham down for supporting it.
its nothing about reducing peak-hour congestion, its all about stealing more money by taxing the working people of manchester.
thats why i'll be voting no on dec 11th.

I'll be voting no as well and so will my other half.

"He also mentioned that if the referendum in December comes back as a NO, then they may well try to introduce a C-charge using just the inner zone, and the penny dropped: they are pitching a massive outer zone in the full expectation that this will be quashed, and they can propose a smaller zone as a "compromise", which is what they were aiming for all along."

I have to say that I expected Manchester and Salford to ring themselves in should a NO vote come back, and then I though to myself, Why?

Why would Manchester city centre ring itself behind a *£5-a-day ring fence when there are nine other conurbations within 10 miles of it.

It would be the economic equivalent of suicide. No one would work there if they could work in Rochdale, Trafford, Bury, Ashton, etc. for the same wages. and business would move a mile or so up the road to reduce costs.

* I predict £5 per day for the inner ring by 2014 assuming the charge is effective from 2013 @ £2.

Jay B, oldham, i suppose now that you have the funding for Oldhams Metrolink and your good bus routes you will say NO but what about area's that have little or no decent transport links this is the only way they will get any help ???

I look forward to the recession and this charge. Watch business fly out of Greater Manchester or fold and people loosing their job.

And what about Trafford Park, sitting between the proposed motorway and Central Manchester ring roads?

Biggest industrial area in Europe apart from one in Germany.

It will shut Trafford Park down, how many warehouses, storage and transport companies are in there?

It's just a grab at any money they can from anyone they can.

IT'S A CON !

In economic terms this Con Charge will effectively create a black hole to use a topical term. I'm sure this will be a boost to rival Cities & Towns that exist beyond the M60 & Manchester will suffer a considerable loss of business & retail activity, but plenty of empty trams rattling around. It will be chaos!

So last week we had Andrew Gwynne from Denton saying change the boundry so it does not affect the people of DENTON/TAMESIDE now we have OLDHAM not wanting to affect OLDHAM folk. On both instances - they are happy for it to affect anyone living in MANCHESTER.

The whole things has been ill thought and planned and seems more and more like a CON.

I hope all those people who are for the charge realise soon that they are going to majorly affected by this and vote NO

Let's make Dec 11th national 'NO TO THE TOLL TAX' day.

Vote no - you know it makes sense.

Vote NO to another TAX

This present governement is greedy and is just about taking money from ordinary people.

This is part of that plan.

no Redtooth the con charge isnt the only way you'll get investment.
the bus companies are all private companys who should be investing in more buses and more routes. the public shouldnt be funding these companys to make more money!
oldhams lucky in that first oldham has invested in new buses. so why cant other bus companys do that?

as for the metrolink, oldham doesnt need it. it only replaces the train line through to rochdale anyway. so we gain trams but loose trains.
anyway this bribe the government is offering us is what we should have got in the first place when they proposed the big bang metrolink expansion.
and look how they went back on their word with that. now its a little fizzle and pop unless the con charge goes ahead!
how can we trust our councils andgovernment if they do this to manchester?

if you want to plunder manchester in to years of debt owed to the government that we the people of manchester end up paying for then fine.
but i can clearly see this for the stealth tax that it is.

Further to earlier comments, I can clarify that the congestion charging proposals that are currently being consulted on - that is, an outer ring roughly in line with the M60 and and inner ring broadly following Queens Road to the north and Alan Turing Way to the east - are the ONLY proposals being considered by AGMA and GMPTA. They will be the subject of December's referendum. For official details of the Transport Innovation Fund proposals, log on to www.gmfuturetransport.co.uk

The TIF ROADSHOW pulls into Stockport this weekend - please take this opportunity to go along and voice your objections (politely of course).

Perhaps ask some simple questions like these below and please feel free to ask the supplementary question,

“Do you have any credible evidence to support that claim?” as and when you deem necessary.

If the TIF bid is unsuccessful, what are your plans? (Maximum effect if asked first)

When is the Metro coming to Stockport? How much will it cost?

If the Metro isn’t coming to Stockport, are we entitled to a discount, like Trafford Park?

Stockport doesn’t appear to be getting much by way of improvements compared to other districts, why?

Can you tell me which new bus and rail services will come through Stockport?

Can you tell me which bus and rail services will be improved in Stockport?

I don’t work in the city centre, will there be any improvements to services that don’t go that way?

Do you think the bus and rail companies will mind us paying for all this?

If we’ve paid for the improvements to bus and train services, are we entitled to a discount?

Do you think we should be entitled to a discount?

How much do you think the congestion charge will bring in each year?

Will the congestion charge bring in enough to pay off the loan?

How long will it take to pay off the loan if the congestion charge does bring in enough?

How long will it take to pay off the loan if the congestion charge doesn’t bring in enough?

If the congestion charge doesn’t bring in enough, how will we pay the loan back?

Will you increase the congestion charge?

My employer won’t give me a pay rise to pay for the congestion charge, what should I do?

Will council staff be able to claim on expenses for the congestion charge?

Will councillors be able to claim on expenses for the congestion charge?

If I don’t work or travel to the city centre, do I still have to pay? Why?


Do you still expect me to vote yes?

we deserve better,

if you're going to put up a list of questions why don't you try and suggest relevant questions that make sense instead of dribble.

"If I don’t work or travel to the city centre, do I still have to pay? Why?"

If you dont travel inbound 7.00-10.30am or 16.00-18.30pm outbound you wont pay

"Will councillors be able to claim on expenses for the congestion charge?"

What has that got to do with whether the c-charge? thats a seperate topic entirely and if they can claim for them they will have to pay tax on it anyway

"My employer won’t give me a pay rise to pay for the congestion charge, what should I do?"

Travel by public transport or negociate an alternative working pattern with your employer

"Will you increase the congestion charge?"

Which part of £5 at 2008 prices do you not understand? yes - the price will go up with inflation - why ask questions that you know the answer to?

"If we’ve paid for the improvements to bus and train services, are we entitled to a discount?"

Again - you seem to be on another planet. The choice is accept the c-charge and get the improvements (which include a new transport interchange in stockport).

"I don’t work in the city centre, will there be any improvements to services that don’t go that way?"

It may suprise you but buses/trains/trams dont just pick up people from one place and take them to one destination. The new tram line to the airport could make a massive difference to people heading away from town, and thats just one example of many

"Stockport doesn’t appear to be getting much by way of improvements compared to other districts, why?"

Apart from a brand new transport interchange, a oyster style card to make it easier to travel around and finally get those real-time info displays working - no stockport wont get that much!

Besides - Stockport already has excellent transport compared to other areas in the county. There's a 192 down the A6 practically every 2 minutes and plenty of trains from Grand Central.

Stockport will get its metrolink extension faster with the bid than without (i know its not funded by tif) and other areas have more desperate need.

Who knows - maybe you'll even get the a6 bypass when its one of the few bottlenecks left to deal with instead of every single arterial route through manchester being clogged up as is the case now

I am not a number; black holes draw everything to them, so i suspect you are trying to say the opposite of what you actually did

lets try and keep some perspective; if TiF goes ahead the world wont end, manchester won't be a ghost town and trafford park won't close down

its a shame these councillors are trying to muddy the waters though, presumably to make a name for themsleves

mancmanomyst your answers sound far too much like a city council mebmbers view on the subject!
You believe that only the drivers will pay and that no one else will be affected, so who's going to pay the increases in costs passed on from the charge? the general public! who mean nothing to you!
we all want to know if the coucillors will claim the costs in expenses. after all they wanted a new carpark too recently! if they can claim everyone else will expect to which will drive up costs to businesses too. so more costs passed on to the public.

the subject of cost is very important so we all want to know the real facts on it. confirmation on its actual cost and not a politians estimated figure. plus will then increase it in the future? if the dont give us a real answer then how are we meant to understand it.

the question on discounts is also very relevant seeing as two thirds of the public transport that will benefit from the charge is actually private companys who should really be investing from their profits. aftera ll they'll be gaining extra profits from these improvements. so will we see fares coming down?

all the relevant items on stockport are right. just like oldham and trafford they get hardly anything. well at least not what they should get if your option to drive is limted buy extra costs.

Yes, the Town hall car park. That was a clear and blatant case of them poking themselves in the eye. Clearly, our leaders have no intentions of using public transport. Just one of the reasons why the pro-tax merchants accusations of 'me, me, me' sound so hollow.