C-charge poll: The FULL result

Exclusive David Ottewell

August 21, 2008

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NOW we can reveal the FULL result of a poll on whether to have a congestion charge in Greater Manchester.

The M.E.N. has already told how the vote shows a majority of people in every one of the area's 10 boroughs support a deal which would mean a pay-to-drive scheme.

But now it has emerged that businesses are AGAINST the plan.

Council leaders have been told they can invest £3bn in public transport if they introduce the peak hour-only charge - and this issue will be settled in an area-wide referendum in December.

The M.E.N. this week disclosed details of a poll of more than 5,000 people, carried out as part of a £3m consultation in the run-up to the big vote.

It showed a majority of people in Greater Manchester's 10 boroughs thought their councils should accept the deal.

The M.E.N. has now obtained the full polling data - including the results of interviews with 1,002 businesses across the region.

We can reveal that half of company bosses OPPOSED the charge-for-cash deal, with 40pc saying they were `strongly' opposed.

Thirty per cent said they supported the bid, with 10pc giving strong support, and 20pc said they `tended' to support it.

Sixteen per cent said they neither supported nor opposed the bid, while four per cent said they did not know.

When asked a slightly different question - if they thought the councils should accept the deal - the results were very different.

Click here to see an interactive timeline on the congestion charge proposal.

Forty-two per cent said `Yes' and 45 per cent said `No'. The results suggest the wording of December's referendum will be crucial - and the deal will go ahead only if seven of the boroughs vote `Yes'.

The M.E.N. can also reveal that the people polled by Mori were asked not one, but TWO questions.

Asked if they thought councils should accept the deal, 53pc said `Yes' and 40pc `No', with majority support in each borough.

But when asked to what extent they PERSONALLY backed it, only 41pc said they either `strongly supported' or `tended to support' it, while 39pc were `strongly opposed' or `tended to oppose' it.

There were majorities in favour in only six of the boroughs.

For a full breakdown of results - plus analysis - click here to read David Ottewell's politics blog

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Caped Crusader, Gotham City (22/08/2008 at 09:51)

Quite clear what the results are saying - not many are going to object to being given public money to fund public transport. The problem is how we are being asked to repay that money. The councils should sell the airport as the strategic reasons for local authorities owning airports have long since disappeared.

Jay B, oldham (22/08/2008 at 09:57)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

we dont care about polls and surveys on this anymore.

we just want the referendum.

that will be the true result to find out if we for or against.

Simon B, No Taxation without Representation (22/08/2008 at 10:22)

I said something similar about last years paid for by AGMA/GMPTE/A survey.

Unless you print the questions, and the method used for the answers, this survey is worthless.

Unless you can put it into context by seeing that information, whats the point in telling us this?

I feel like I'm being patronised and mislead.

Jay B, oldham (22/08/2008 at 10:47)

Simon B i think most people think we're being patronised and mislead on this subject.

its a joke, if it was a some other sort of private company wanting to expand it would have to foot the bill and invest in itself.
so why do the people of manchester have to foot the bill for this investement? after all over two thirds of it is privately owned?

Tameside Blue, Tameside (22/08/2008 at 11:22)

this £1m it's costing for the vote can we get a grant for this so that we don't have to pay for it out of our pockets when the result is totally predictable and a waste of public money

But then, wasting public money comes naturally to councillors and politicians doesn't it.

After all, so long as they are getting their 'Wedge', it's only us muppets that have to pay. They don't

citycentre, manchester (22/08/2008 at 11:33)

caped crusader, sell the aiport, but who too?
and as BAA have just been told to sell 6 of theirs the price of airports will no doubt be at an all time low, suply and demand being what it is

might be best to hold on to it for now

Marissa P (22/08/2008 at 11:40)

I'm fed up of being told I'm wrong to object to the charge because of all the improvements it brings. I've no objection to the improvements (even though they won't help me. although it would be nice if they did) - what I object to is the method of paying for them. Why not add it to the council tax public transport levy or collect it in the same way? At least then it spreads the cost a bit more fairly round both motorists and those public transport users who will benefit from the improvements.

Laura Norder, Didsbury (22/08/2008 at 12:04)

The £10 gallon isn't too far away, then we'll see who is prepared to spend a huge proportion of their 'hard-earned' cash commuting (alone)...

Yes, I drive - as does my significant other half - but when I/we can use public transport, that's a great alternative.

No driving round and around looking for parking bays; no queueing for over-priced, multi-storey car parks, or missing out on social occasions because of the need to drive sober - give me the easy life.

Bring on the investment.

Laura Norder, Didsbury (22/08/2008 at 12:11)

"I'm fed up of being told I'm wrong to object to the charge because of all the improvements it brings. I've no objection to the improvements (even though they won't help me. although it would be nice if they did) - what I object to is the method of paying for them. Why not add it to the council tax public transport levy or collect it in the same way? At least then it spreads the cost a bit more fairly round both motorists and those public transport users who will benefit from the improvements." - Marissa P

Of course, great idea, let's charge Manchester residents more, so commuters from Cheshire, Merseyside, Yorkshire and even North Wales, can reap the benefits of working in our vibrant city.

If you want to drive in and work in Manchester, you pay... or travel when it's free.

Doh!

Simon B, No Taxation without Representation (22/08/2008 at 12:18)

Laura.

You have failed to make a simple connection with your £10 per gallon comment.

Forget about cars for the moment.

Every country depends on its Road haulage system, basely the HGV truck.

High fuel prices directly impacts upon food prices as the trucks used to move the food with cost more to run.

Surely you don’t want people to starve not because there no food, but there is food; they simply can not afford it.

This exact scenario exists in a lot of the third world countries.

And will spread if fuel prices go that insanely high, or higher.

Bean B4, manchester (22/08/2008 at 12:21)

Laura: No doubt leafy Didsbury 'village' will be well catered for but there appears to be no advantage to people living in the New Moston/Failsworth 'village' area.

gordhelpus, Manchester (22/08/2008 at 12:28)

I live near the airport and work in audenshaw, nobody has asked me for my view, till they do I dont believe a word the council says.
Anyway I couldnt afford to pay so should I phone in sick or go on Incapacity Benefit. Manchester is a great place but lately I wonder if our councillors have been smoking the wacky backy.

Trudy, Bolton (22/08/2008 at 13:11)

Remember we are being given permission to borrow some of the money for the investment - it's not all free money and who pays it back but who benefits and who owns the assets the money is buying?

citycentre, manchester (22/08/2008 at 13:36)

Simon B

fuel prices are going up, this is not conencted to TiF, congestion or anything any UK governemnt can influence.
There is more demand for oil, and less easy to access oil available, as the price increases and stays high new sources of oil can be found, but these will be more expensive than at present.

a temporary cut could be funded by lowering fuel tax, but this would mean cutting expenditure or raising taxes elsewhere.
and it would just put the problem off until later, better to face up to it now, keep fuel taxes as they are and use any extrta money rasied to invest in solutions.

Once again (22/08/2008 at 13:48)

Why is there no option to bid for the free money and forget the loan.

If the government can afford to give this money out with an extra 'loan' amount then it can afford to give it out wothout and extra 'loan' amount. Or will we actually be paying back the 'free' bit as well on the sligh.

Once again (22/08/2008 at 13:51)

Simon B there are vast amounts of oli deposits that are becoming more and more economically viable to extract from and getting oli from these is being done at a cheaper and cheaper rate all the time. The price does not have to keep increasing especially not at this rate indefinately.

skintandfedup (22/08/2008 at 13:52)

I do not dictate what time I start work, my employer does. There are no planned improvements where I live in Stockport. I use my car to travel to work in the city centre because although it costs more, its much quicker and safer if I work late. The propaganda issued by the TIF supporters does not tell the true story of the planned improvements and I have yet to be convinced why I should go back to using public transport to get to work, adding 2 hours to my day. It takes me 25 minutes to drive to work and I can honestly say that in the year or so I have been doing this, the only congestion I experienced was due to faulty temporary traffic lights, not volume of traffic. Congestion may have increased in parts of the city, but the planners must take the blame for this. Wilmslow Rd and the A6 are just bus lanes which are full of empty buses.

Jay B, oldham (22/08/2008 at 14:20)

If you want to drive in and work in Manchester, you pay... or travel when it's free. Laura Norder

So basically i cannot move around my city freely at anytime then. i now have restrictions put in place that i will get charged if i travel at peak times?
sounds a bit like gary glitters restrictions. haha!

think i might not work and go into manchester ever again then. i did that with london. i wont go there anymore.

i wonder how many others may have the same idea.

Manchesters doomed if it takes on this debt!

£2250 a year PAYCUT - NO THANKS - Paul Teeque (22/08/2008 at 15:04)

just watched the video DAVE GODDARD FOR PM!

Truly a man of the people, not brainwashed in the slightest by the "con charge is what we want etc" spin and propaganda!

No surprises on the full result as well, what i've said all along, MANC DOESN'T WANT THE CON CHARGE STEALTH TAX WAGE CUT.

Thanks
Paul

JoeStalin,Gorton (22/08/2008 at 15:25)

I've extracted my own poll data from the results published by MEN on this site. In Bury, Stockport, Tameside and Trafford, almost exaclty 31% are stongly opposed and a mere 15-16% are stronlgy in favour of the charge. Assuming only those with strong opinions will vote, these four areas will almost certainly vote the scheme down. No futher council tax payers money now needs to be wasted on this ludicrous idea which has ALWAYS been aimed at raising local council revenue for them to waste as they see fit.

Laura Norder, Didsbury (22/08/2008 at 15:41)

"If you want to drive in and work in Manchester, you pay... or travel when it's free. Laura Norder

So basically i cannot move around my city freely at anytime then. i now have restrictions put in place that i will get charged if i travel at peak times? sounds a bit like gary glitters restrictions. haha!

think i might not work and go into manchester ever again then. i did that with london. i wont go there anymore.
i wonder how many others may have the same idea.
Manchesters doomed if it takes on this debt!" - Jay B, oldham

I'm sure Manchester - as London did - will survive without the moaning-minnies, and gloom-and-doom merchants to bring us all down.

I'll bet there isn't a half-full bottle in your home. Though I'd lay odds there are plenty of half-empty ones.

Shut the door as you leave...

citycentre, manchester (22/08/2008 at 16:04)

skintandfedup

yes, what you say is my major objection to the proposal, however you say car travel is better when you work late, what to you mean by late, as the outbound charge only applies in peak hours, so it is likely you will not have to pay it anyway.

jay B, depends what you mean by freely. if you mean you can only travel when permitted, that is not true you will still be able to travel when you like.
if you mean free of charge then no you wont, but very few people can, currently people pay to own a car, have it on the road, put fuel in it and park it.
people pay to use public transport.
taxes are levied on airplane tickets
even cycling incurs vat on bike and parts, as i suppose does walking as shoes would wear out faster and are subject to vat as well

once again; very good question. is there any possibilty of the non loan element of the money still being available in the event of a no vote. if so which portion of the proposal would still be viable
no chance of an answer to this i suppose, as any hint that it is would ensure no in a referendum

BillyJ (22/08/2008 at 16:30)

irrelevant, Salford (22/08/2008 at 18:50)

I live just inside the inner zone... one of my regular journeys is to a scout group where I volunteer. According to the proposed maps, it's either just inside too, or sa bit outside (being between two routes.) I usually leave there just before 6.30, so would get caught by the charge - my normal journey there takes me out of the inner zone - to stay inside would mean I skirt the city centre somewhat closer, which I avoid due to the traffic at that time. I can't get the bus, as there are no direct services and I'd probably have to change at Picadilly!! It's just ridiculous.

Rammylad (22/08/2008 at 20:32)

I am happy that Bury is getting its fair share of the tif loan. All the busses around here are making this very clear. Bury will benefit as trafford is getting a tram and so if we are going there at rush hour and we would normally drive through the centre of town and not around the M60, then the TIF loan is for us. Otherwise we are getting zilch. But I think it is a price worth paying because I am stupid.

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