C-charge: You could still have say

David Ottewell

June 09, 2008

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A REFERENDUM on Greater Manchester's planned congestion charge has NOT been ruled out, it emerged today.

Sir Richard Leese, deputy chairman of the Association of Greater Manchester Authorities (AGMA), said it had not yet been decided what form consultation on the proposal would take.

The news came just hours before transport minister Rosie Winterton was due to visit the region to confirm an offer of £3bn of public transport improvements in return for introducing the charge.

That will trigger 12 weeks of public consultation before AGMA - the umbrella body representing the 10 council areas of Greater Manchester - votes on whether to go ahead.

Current voting rules require two thirds of councils to be in favour and Trafford, Bury and Stockport are opposed to the charge.

Sir Richard, who is also Manchester council leader, said: "We will be deciding at the end of the month what form the consultation is going to take. Nothing has been ruled out.

"At the end of this process our aim is not to go for a two-thirds majority. We hope that at the end of the consultation it will be clear what people want and that there will be agreement."

Sir Richard - who has previously said a referendum `would not work' for such a complex issue - made it clear he was still personally not in favour.

He said: "Normally referendums are for constitutional-type issues, not for issues that elected members would usually take. We do have a system based on elected representatives who have to take difficult and important decisions.

"Are we going to have a referendum every time we face a difficult decision?"

Ms Winterton was expected to confirm the success of AGMA's bid for £1.2bn from the transport innovation fund (TIF), plus permission to borrow around £1.8bn more.

The money would be spent revolutionising public transport with the completion of the `Big Bang' tram extension to Rochdale, Oldham, Ashton under Lyne, the airport and the Trafford Centre. There would also be cash to improve buses and trains.

In return, Greater Manchester would introduce a peak-hour congestion charge of up to £5 a day at current prices.

The charge would require motorists to fit special tags to their car windscreens, which would be electronically scanned.

There would be two charging `rings' - one around the M60 and one nearer the city centre - with motorists charged only if they travelled in certain directions at peak hours. Vehicles would pay more for passing through both rings, up to a maximum level.

It would be the country's biggest road-pricing scheme and the first in any major city outside London.

Graham Stringer, MP for Manchester Blackley, said the charge was `politically and economically' a bad idea.

He said: "This is an experiment for the government but it is not an experiment for us.

"It is fundamentally changing the nature of the Greater Manchester economy so that billions of pounds have to be taken out of a relatively small number of pockets."

But Tony Lloyd, MP for Manchester Central, said congestion was holding back the local economy, adding that without the charge some 30,000 new jobs could be lost to the region.

Sean Corker, of pressure group Manchester Against Road Tolls, said: "Gordon Brown and (transport secretary) Ruth Kelly are announcing a new motoring tax when there is growing unrest over increases in existing motoring costs."

Meanwhile, it has emerged that the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Authority (GMPTA) is effectively leaderless until its annual general meeting on June 20. Former chairman Roger Jones lost his seat on Salford council - and the GMPTA - when he was defeated at the polls in May. And deputy chairman Allen Brett retired from the authority at the same time.

The M.E.N. revealed on Saturday that the government was going to announce today that it had accepted Greater Manchester's bid.

Labour-run Manchester, Salford, Wigan and Tameside are in favour, as are Lib Dem-held Rochdale, and Oldham. Bolton has pledged a local referendum.

Click here to view a map of the congestion charge zone.

Should we have a referendum? Have your say.

Articles

C-charge a step closer

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MsD, Manchester (09/06/2008 at 13:45)

I wish Graham Stringer was back in control of Manchester City Council.

There is not enough information about this. Public consultation has to give EVERYONE the chance to comment and I believe this can only be done with a referndum. Also why have they not publicised exactly WHERE the inner ring will be ? The whole thing is a shambles from start to finish.

James, Lancashire (09/06/2008 at 13:50)

They weren't allowed to publish those details until the government had made it's decision. Something to do with it being 'commerically sensitive' information. All of the nitty gritty details about the scheme should be released today (or later this week) once the government has officially given us the go ahead. It's not a 'shambles' - they're just doing things the way government rules say they should be - whether you agree with those rules or not is, of course, another matter.

Dave (09/06/2008 at 13:51)

MsD - they haven't published detailed information about it yet because it has only just been agreed today - they couldn't announce information before it had been agreed by government, as the scheme was liable to change.

Full consultation will only take place after the full package has been announced.

The Right to Reply (09/06/2008 at 13:52)

Tax, tax, tax, we have all had our guts full, public transport a JOKE, roads underfunded, are these people truly real? Simple answer a 100.000 improvement on public transport, what a bout a mono rail in areas that cannot have the Metro like they have in Singapore, and Dubai etc, go on say it....we have no money! yet we pay for all the immigrants, write off third world debts, wars we do not want, etc, etc, this country is a Joke. (and not a funny one at that)

ace, manchester (09/06/2008 at 13:52)

Dickie leese and his band of merry men said.
"what form consultation on the proposal would take." What this means is they havnt worked out a way of making it look like the voters have all voted for this charge (that most dont want).Its yet another political wrangle to get their way and make it look like we (the voters) have all wanted it .Get ready for the charge because it it be just like all the other LABOUR type ripoffs.(We will have a referendum as long as the answer is yes)then the government refused a referendum? what sort of politics is this???DICTATORSHIP .YOUR ARE STUPID IF YOU VOTE THIS LOT BACK IN EITHER LOCAL OR AS A GOVERNMENT....

keith lesbirel (09/06/2008 at 13:57)

disgusting we already pay through the nose to use our cars now they plan to tax us even more..we now need a mass demonstration in manchester city centre and we must also start a cant pay wont pay campaign it worked for the poll tax.we also need to boycott companys that support this idea the manchester eve news being one of them.do as i have done i no longer buy the eve news because of its support for the toll tax..i would also urge people not to vote labour,tax and spend is all they know......

keith lesbirel (09/06/2008 at 14:02)

70 pence a litre goes to this government in tax,road tax going up now they want us to pay for something we already pay for enough is enough.why should we pay for private companys such as stagecoach and first to buy new buses and the trams are also run by stagecoach.think about it these companys must be laughing there socks off please please dont vote labour.

Bobby, City Centre (09/06/2008 at 14:02)

Take no Notice of Leese,he always goes back on statements,2005 he said "If we introduce the congestion charge it will damage local economy" in 2007 he said "If we dont introduce the congestion charge it will damage the Local economy".Both Statements printed in the MEN.

itsme, manchester (09/06/2008 at 14:05)

Congestion charging is a politically arrogant and highly risky direction to take Manchester. Driven by the egos of a handful of civil servants and politicians it holds the law abiding populating that voted for them and pays their wages to ransom. Alternative options that could achieve simliar goals have not been investigated becuase of DfT policy,which is not a good enough reason to go down this path. It will hit many hard working people with tight budgets will an unreasonable burden and will make destinations outside of the charging zone more attractive. Anyone fancy a job in Warrington or shopping in Liverpool instead?? The political elite that run this country forget who they are dealing with, Mancs wont take this lying down..

Miss M, Manchester (09/06/2008 at 14:07)

I have just bought a new car and the insurance has gone up the tax has doubled and im left with a lovely car that in not sure in 12 months time i am going to be able to run!
I work full time pay taxes and here we go again more charges!
C-Charge should be stopped before we all have no money to get to work!
Give us a break!

polkyb (09/06/2008 at 14:11)

"Are we going to have a referendum every time we face a difficult decision?"

No, Leese, but you should ask the population whenever there is such a large opposition to a decision.

Remember the poll tax riots?

Mike S, Manchester (09/06/2008 at 14:12)

itsme - unfortunately, I'm afraid the Mancs will take it lying down. It was already practically a dead-cert at the time of the local elections in May, but didn't stop everyone still voting Labour anyway.

Will the MEN pledge to launch a campaign for a referendum?

It currently seems like the only ones in favour of it are the ones who will be able to claim it back and not have to pay for it! If the charge goes ahead, will the councillors promise not to claim it back out of expenses?

Timberman, MANCHESTER (09/06/2008 at 14:15)

I sent an e-mail to Tony Lloyd MP today asking him how putting Manchester into debt and bringing in the c-charge will save 30,000 jobs. Watch the Postbag for his reply if any.

MsD, Manchester (09/06/2008 at 14:27)

If they were no allowed to publish deatils of this schememuntil today, why have there been maps produced showing an intermediate ring in different places and also comments there may be a third ring as suggested by Councillor Merry in Salford ? Sorry, I disagree - it has been and still is a shambles (it won't be anything else with Manchester City Council's involvement)!

Pentest (09/06/2008 at 14:28)

Lets get this referendum rolling now. The sooner the better, then we can get this infernal CON charge out of the way and get down to some serious business again.

Chris, Irlam (09/06/2008 at 14:35)

"Will the MEN pledge to launch a campaign for a referendum?"

No, the MEN will launch a campaign backing the Toll Tax 100% instead as they made their minds up ages ago.

Munkey Boy, Audenshaw, Manchester (09/06/2008 at 14:47)

itsme: "Driven by the egos of a handful of civil servants and politicians it holds the law abiding populating that voted for them and pays their wages to ransom."

You could argue all forms of taxation are holding people to ransom. We all know and accept the fact of life that is taxes. What people object to, and what this discussion *should* be about, is the best way to use the forms of taxation to benefit those charged.

No-one disagrees we would like better public transport in Manchester and no-one disagrees we need less congestion on some busy routes. Is this not a logical extension of those thoughts? Why shouldn't roads be priced according to demand and time of travel? Trains are.

Paul Peters (09/06/2008 at 14:49)

Of course Mancs will take it lying down, remember many of these clowns voted for Leese, Karney and the other smug control freaks, Britains second City?, don't make me laugh.

Freddie Pie (09/06/2008 at 14:49)

What good will a referendum do? Clearly people will just make the easy decision that effects them least, i.e. still get in my car whilst congestion gets worse every year. Difficult decisions need to be made to encourage use of public transport.

wkdboy1, Woodley (09/06/2008 at 14:57)

when are we going to have a protest against the CON TAX? Id love to stand outside the councillors propeties with plackards and make their lives absolute hell!

Sam Anderson (09/06/2008 at 14:58)

Does MCC think that people drive to work in the city for fun?? Now they want to charge for the privilege? I agree with most of the comments on here, this country really is a joke. In fact, I think it would be easier to start claiming benefits and become a layabout, I might be better off financially at this rate.

BOBTILTD, URMSTON (09/06/2008 at 15:02)

Anyone who opposes this charge visit

WWWSTOPTHECHARGE.CO.UK

DO SOMETHING !!!!

Mark Spencer, Ashton-under-Lyne, Lancashire. (09/06/2008 at 15:05)

I heard the interwiew about seven this morning when Mr Lease said about the referendum, It was rather like you say to someone "we may go to Florida, take the grandkids to Disney World" knowing full well that Blackpool Pleasure Beach for a day is where you are going.

He also said that congestion will be cut by 20% with the scheme. The UK average travel to work distance(2007 figures) is just over 8 miles - It takes on average 27 minutes bar car - 40 minutes by public transport so If you are FORCED out of you car, your congestion is going up over 30 percent. An intersting fact is that Rich folk travel twice as far as poor people (ie twice the pollution) so rather than diswade the rich who can afford the fiver a day we will get shut of the poor people instead.

dessie, manchester (09/06/2008 at 15:10)

ITS ABOUT TIME THIS COUNCIL LISTENED TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, AND A REFERENDUM WOULD SHOW THESE CLOWNS IN CHARGE, HOW MUCH OUT OF TOUCH THEY REALLY ARE!!!

LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE BEFORE YOU LOSE YOUR JOBS!!!!

Marje, Worsley (09/06/2008 at 15:12)

Lets all declare our cars off the road (sorn)the day it comes in if everyone of us does that we will of had the last laugh.Lets change our ways and start sticking together and show we are no longer a pushover nation.

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