Private hire cars should all be yellow with a white hood and roof so they can be seen by customers .we need to protect the customers from cowboys who pick up off the streets .At least this way all cabs would be uniform in colour ..

fine .now can we all get back to commo sense and let the thousands of people who fly from manchester airport also be able to be picked up outside the arrivals section without having to walk about three miles to be picked up.I know there was a case of a couple of idiots who tried to burn down glasgow airport, but it was the only occasion it happened, and it had not happened before any where in the world. surly if they can drop some body off on the first floor level for them to fly out. they should be able to pick them up on the ground floor outside when they return.

This is a fantastic idea. I very rareley go out in the City Centre because of the difficulties of getting home. A black cab costs in excess of £40 but booking a private hire cab has its own difficulties. This way the private cab knows his fare will be waiting and will therefore turn up. I hope the council keep this going.

My oh My! What an irresistible can of worms the local council has opened up for the festive season? Private hire vehicles forming a taxi rank with the approval of the local council, how appetising? I know the licensing department and councillors are pretty thick when it comes to understanding the law relating to hackney carriages and the multitude of offences associated with illegal plying for hire and touting. Has it never occurred to the licensing department and those brain dead councillors who make up the licensing committee that any vehicles forming a taxi rank other than licensed hackney carriages are “breaking the law”? Has it never occurred to the licensing department and those same brain dead councillors that anyone stood in a public place taking bookings for private hire vehicle is also breaking the law? It will come as no surprise that the Manchester TOA has once again thrown in the towel before a punch has been thrown and considering the local GMB and the Manchester TOA are tied by the same umbilical chord then we can expect the same pious statement from them. That just leaves the T&G and anyone familiar with the Manchester T&G will know that their heart is in the right place but just like their capitulation in the Taxi rank Marshal fiasco, where owner’s license fees were practically doubled in order to pay the wages of rank Marshals, they will also bend to the will of the council.
What Manchester hackney carriage drivers need is another purge like we had in the late eighties and early nineties were we took the law into our hands and did the job that the licensing department should have done and that is prosecute those persons who illegally plied for hire on the streets of Manchester. You will never curb illegal plying for hire but you can at least embarrass the local council by showing the public that prosecutions can be achieved if you have the will to do it? The problem for Manchester hackney carriage drivers is that the local council does not have the “will” or the “know how” to enforce the problem of illegal plying for hire but its about time that someone stepped out of the shadows and showed them the error of their ways.

It's time to liberalise taxi operations and allow anybody who wants a taxi licence and is fit to hold one to have one. The fact that there is such competition for taxi licences is a sure sign that there are too few of them.

Its not uncommon for taxi drivers to get what they want, in the city centre they think they own the roads anyway blackcabs and private hire

Typical Black Cab drivers wanting the monopoly but not willing to operate when the need is greatest. Open up to competition and let the punters decide.

In response to Pete, who harped on about competition and the so called Black Cab monopoly and not willing to operate when the need is there, I should remind him that since 1985 black cabs in this city have doubled. Any monopoly as he calls it is dictated by council policy because it is they who decide how many cabs the public should have at their disposal so if he has a beef about provision then he should direct his comments at Manchester City Council. His remark about not working when the need is greatest is somewhat contradictory to the human nature of self employed individuals. I suppose the alternative to not working when the need is greatest is working when the need is at its lowest? Does he really think that cabbies are going to sit at home at peak periods of demand and come out when demand is not there?

The bus driver who said “cabbies think they own the roads” should take a long hard look at his own industry because the majority of the general public think it is they who think they own the roads. Their furious driving is a common feature on the roads of Manchester as any cab driver will tell you, their urgency to get to the next bus stop before a rival bus company means they continually put the lives of pedestrians and passengers at risk.

DOOBYDO thinks that having private hire taxi ranks is a great idea however he or she fails to realise that such a practise is currently illegal. DOOBYDO also states that they don’t go out that much and when they do they find it hard to get home? DOOBYDO blames Manchester Cabbies for this restriction on their social life but perhaps he or she is being a little disingenuous because a Manchester Black cabs is not the only form of Transport at their disposal? Perhaps DOOBYDO should make transport arrangements before they embark on a night out. Alternately he or she can always stick their hand out and flag down a private hire car in Manchester because with the lack of council and police enforcement practically every one of them will stop and offer you their services for a fee which may well be in excess of the 40 pounds you quoted. I would just like to add that if you have been charged or quoted 40 pounds to get home then you certainly don’t live within the Manchester Boundary, in which case any fare is negotiable.

A note of caution for Manchester Councillors, Greater Manchester police and the Manchester Taxi trade the law states, “If a person, in a public place, solicits persons to hire vehicles to carry them as passengers, he is guilty of an offence.” I can’t think of any place more public than the Print works and I can’t think of anything more solicitous as a person stood in the middle on the street with a clipboard inviting the public to hire a private hire vehicle that is stationary on the street ready and being made available with a driver for immediate hire.

Anyone requiring evidence of blatant illegal plying for hire by Manchester private hire drivers and the total disregard to enforcement from both Manchester City Council and the police, need only look at this photograph from the website taxi driver online to understand the severity of the problem. www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=81428 Reading the comments from many of you who have posted in this thread I have a suspicious feeling that many of you might condone this illegal practice?

NTA: "Any monopoly as he calls it is dictated by council policy because it is they who decide how many cabs the public should have at their disposal"

This is true, but when the OFT suggested de-restricting hackney carriage licences in 2004, hackney carriage drivers protested against it, because they didn't want to lose their monopoly.

The whole process of restricted taxi licencing gives taxi drivers unfair protection from competition (which most other business don't have) and results in a shortage of hackney carriages and the problems of private hire taxis plying for trade illegally and people getting into bogus taxis.

The solution is quite simple, de-restrict hackney licencing and let anybody who wants a licence and is fit to hold one have one. That way the market can decide how many taxis are needed (rather than the council) and taxis can begin competing for customers, rather than the other way round.

The Oft report came out in late 2003 actually but I understand your position and the OFT did indeed suggest every authority in the country should remove restrictions. The Government responded to the OFT report by stating they would leave the decision to remove numbers control to each individual council. Manchester prefers a policy of quantity control over quality control and that is not because the local hackney carriage trade has persuaded the council to implement such a policy, it is councillors themselves who prefer this policy. Notwithstanding the fact that the local taxi trade has always been against removing quantity controls, they don’t have to do very much persuading in order to convince councillors to keep the present policy. Therefore I reiterate my previous comments that it is councillors who dictate hackney carriage policy and not the local hackney carriage trade. One observation I might add is that the quality control of new drivers, is “abysmal”, simply because the Knowledge test is grossly inadequate and let’s drivers slip through the net who can’t even read, write or speak English with any degree of competence? They don’t even understand the basic bye laws that they work under, or any of the essential national rules on current legislation of the Taxi trade. In other words the standard of many new inductees to the Manchester taxi trade is woefully sub substandard compared to other industries.

NTA, it's unrealistic to suggest that the campaign run be hackney carriage drivers, where almost every cab had an "If it's not broke, don't fix it" sticker in the back windscreen, was not a major factor in keeping quantity controls in place.

In the main, very few people outside the taxi trade really understand or care about how the licencing system works (perhaps I'm the only one!), so very few people would have openly objected to maintaining the status quo, but de-restriction would have resulted in councils feeling the wrath of the taxi drivers, so maintaining the status quo was the safe choice for councils to take.

I'm all for quality controls, but quantity controls, which have been defended vigorously by a large number of hackney drivers, are an unfair restriction of trade and a danger to public safety.

Before the OFT report came out there were approximately 150 councils who restricted hackney carriage licenses by way of quantity control, there are at present approximately 93 councils who have made a firm commitment retain quantity controls according to the website taxi driver online. www.taxi-driver.co.uk/quota.html you should not forget that the hackney carriage trade had a legitimate right to advance any arguments for the retention of quantity controls just as those who take your position had the same right. It should also not be forgotten that councillors and officers from Manchester city council appeared before the Transport select committee and voiced their opinion that restrictions should be maintained. Several local North West MP’s were also in favour of councils retaining quantity control so if you need to proportion blame on those responsible for the current policy of Manchester city council then your first port of call should be those politicians who advocated retaining the status quo? I should also remind you that a council can only refuse a license application if it is in position of evidence of no unmet demand. You have at your disposal the legal right to challenge any refusal in a court of law.

NTA, I'd be delighted to know what reason Hackney drivers could give for retaining quantity controls other than the threat it presents to their monopoly.

Some politicians may support retaining controls, but for Hackney drivers to campaign heavily in support of controls and then say that they had no impact on the decision to retain controls is a pitiful attempt to avoid taking responsibility.

One result of the position taken by those Hackney drivers is people finding themselves in danger getting into bogus taxis because of their inability to find a taxi. I hope all those who campaigned in support of continued restriction, be they politicians or drivers, have the decency to have that on their conscience.

The simple fact is and I can assure I know what I’m talking about is that all Major Cities including such as the likes of Birmingham who are unrestricted, have a shortage of cabs at peak weekend periods. Removing the current policy of quantity control might alleviate some of the problems but it certainly wouldn’t eradicate all of them. Therefore I think it is perhaps a little disingenuous of you to blame the Manchester hackney carriage trade for all the ills associated with females getting into bogus taxis, as you put it. Quite frankly I don’t subscribe to the bogus Taxi supposition because all taxis have a license plate of some sort attached to the vehicle along with an illuminated hire sign. Therefore they are all distinguishable in one way or another as a taxi. All other vehicles are not taxis and are therefore not licensed to pick up off the street. Private hire vehicles are also instantly recognisable because they also have a distinguishing license plate attached to the vehicle. I respectfully suggest that it is not rocket science to assume that any vehicle that doesn’t look like a taxi or private hire vehicle, “probably isn’t”? Therefore the word “bogus” is probably the wrong euphemism to use?

IN REPLY TO NTA 03/12/07 02.38

Shame i thought you were doing well firstly the Private Hire pick up and drop off point on Dantzic Street is NOT a rank. You have to have two vehicles or more to be classed as a rank. the Private Hire vehicles Picking up at this pick up point are doing just that they drive in collect a pre booked fare that they have been called in for and exit they do not park up and form a rank they move off as soon as their PRE BOOKED FARES have entered their vehicles.
were do you get your information from that we are taking bookings for private hire vehicles.
we take bookings relay them to our bases then the cab is dispatched from our bases to collect the customer at the pick up point as the vehicle arrives one of our stewards ensures the customer is getting in to the correct PRE BOOKED VEHICLE seems you need to brush up on your understanding of our taxi bye laws.
And if you honestly believe another fiasco same as happened in the early nineties when Hackney drivers of dubious character were allowed to entrap Private Hire drivers would serve any purpose then you disappoint me.
see if you can answer this one.
WERE IN OUR CITY CAN YOU GET IN A VEHICLE AND THAT JOURNEY IS COMPLETELY UNRECORDED AND NO RECORD OF YOU EVER HAVING BEEN IN THAT VEHICLE EXISTS.

ANSWER. every time you get in to a HACKNEY CAB.

When you get in to a PRE BOOKED PRIVATE HIRE VEHICLE on Dantzic street your journey is booked. The vehicle you have entered recorded on computer. You and the vehicle are recorded by C.C.T.V.And your safety monitored by three stewards and three marshals on one pick up point.

I know were i would sooner my daughters waite for a cab and what cab they would sooner use.

M.P.H.O.D.A. 05/12/07 22.10

NTA, as you say, de-restriction wouldn't erradicate taxi shortage problems, but might alleviate them. Just because there is no practical way of completely resolving a problem doesn't mean that efforts shouldn't be made to at least improve the situation.

The greater the shortage of taxis, the more chance there is that people will take chances and get into unlicenced cars, especially on cold winter nights. Getting into such a vehicle is obviously a very dangerous thing to do, but when the alternative, caused in a large part by the restriction of taxi numbers, is standing in the street for a prolonged period of time, it isn't too hard to see why people do it.

`Victory for Common Sense' In March this year I complained to Manchester City Council about the way the Private Hire Sector were being treated by the Night Time Economy Project Team. With Black Cab Feeder Ranks appearing all over the City Centre we were being denied the right to pick customers up in accessible places.
The Customer has the right to choose where and when they want picking up from.
They should not be told where to. For all you Private Hire Drivers out there why not go onto the Blog site www.greatermanchesterprivatehireassociation.co.uk bring your views to fellow drivers. Manchester Airport! Can we do anything More!

Black Flag, you appear to be a sensible person who understands the taxi trade better than most and I might add many of those persons who actually work in the trade but when you say, “efforts should be made to improve the situation”, your comments and actions should be directed at those who have caused and still prolong this problem, namely “Manchester city council”. There is nothing I or the taxi trade can do about the policy of Manchester city council, the public elected these people therefore one assumes they are happy with the status quo?

NTA, to claim that the current situation is entirely down to MCC and nothing to do with the taxi trade is an unfair attempt to avoid putting some responsibility for the situation at the feet of the taxi trade, which has campaigned heavily for the situation that we have. That isn't to say that MCC shouldn't share the responsibility, but the idea that there is nothing the taxi trade can do about the policy of Manchester City Council is untrue, especially given the amount of effort the trade spent putting pressure on the council to maintain the status quo.

The public did elect those who maintain the status quo, but taxi licencing is not widely understood and is never a major election issue, so the continuing restriction of licences couldn't really be described as being endorsed by the electorate.

NTA! I am led to believe the people that made these picking up points decisions at the Printworks are indeed the Night Time Economy Team which comprises of Manchester Licensing Department, Traffic Section, Parking enforcement, GMP, The Printworks, and the City Centre Management Company. These people were heavily involved in this Initiative. They then reported back to the Deputy Chief Executive. In March this year I Complained to the Council over picking up points in the City, especially the Printworks. I was invited to attend one of there meetings by one of its Partners however on the last minute someone decided I wasnt welcome as a Private Hire Driver.
The response from Higher above stated neither the Private Hire nor Hackney Carriage was consulted in the Multi Agency Operation that took place in and around the Printworks. All Private Hire Operators Licensed in Manchester were advised in writing of the Councils Proposals.
The main reason a large scale consultation did not take place was the timescales involved. The enforcement agencies were asked to put together and run the operation at short notice.
So with that I would say `they should take time out and Consult all Parties especially the Drivers, both Black Cab and Private Hire who work such schemes before making decisions. The Pick up points at the Printworks and other areas of the City of Manchester need looking into. I would now urge the Council to take more time and care before making such decisions. The Print works has been opened for some years now and we can all see for ourselves there are problems facing Joe Public.
But it is only with Combined Consultation that the best way forward is reached!
Nta have you tried the www.greatermanchesterprivatehireassociation.co.uk Blog Site? Why not tell you fellow Drivers about it? Let’s get to air our grievances!
We can make a difference!

GMPHA. Thank you for that explanation it is most welcome. At last readers might have some idea as to how this situation came about? Perhaps you could advise us further on how the scheme works or how it is supposed to work? For instance, considering Manchester has many private hire companies, what is the procedure on booking work at this venue? I assume the scheme is open to all private hire companies therefore do representatives from each company stand around with signs, advertisements or any other distinguishing marks on or about their person saying something like, “Joe blogs private hire company” and then wait to be approached by members of the public? An explanation of the practice would be most welcome.

Black flag, if Manchester cab drivers went to the council and said we want to remove restrictions on vehicle numbers I believe the council would refuse the request point blank. They do not want to three thousand hackney carriages running around Manchester.

In response to Mr Meek, I decided to take up his invitation and visit his website, I must admit that having been spoilt by the luxury of the facilities available on the Benchmark website of “Taxi Driver Online” I am of the opinion that all other taxi related websites I have so far visited pale into insignificance when compared to TDO. However I wish you well with your website in the future and hope others derive a source of benefit from the facility. In respect of the questions I posed regarding advertising, persons soliciting members of the public and the proportionality of Manchester private hire firms touting for custom at the Print works, I confirm that I spoke with Manchester City Council and I was informed that only three private hire companies are being allowed to tout for business at the print works and your company Cresta Cars is one of them? Another is Radio Cars and the third company escapes me. Why is it that the council and the police have chosen to turn a blind to the touting activities of only these three private hire companies? What about the rest? Do they remain subject to the law? Isn’t it a fact that this whole exercise is for the single purpose of obtaining custom off the street by way of touting and advertising your company in a public place. If you placed advertisements for your company in the print works you are not breaking any laws but as soon as you factor a human presence into the equation then you are breaking the law. That law is as follows. Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 Taxi touts Section 167 Touting for hire car services (1) Subject to the following provisions, it is an offence, in a public place, to solicit persons to hire vehicles to carry them as passengers. (2) Subsection (1) above does not imply that the soliciting must refer to any particular vehicle nor is the mere display of a sign on a vehicle that the vehicle is for hire soliciting within that subsection. (5) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale. (6) In this section “public place” includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access (whether on payment or otherwise). I don’t suppose many Private hire or Taxi drivers are aware of the relevant section but if they read this then they are now. I don’t suppose you see this activity as fitting into the category of Touting otherwise you wouldn’t be doing it but the case the law is already established and I can assure you that the Court of appeal does view such activity as touting. All you need do now is find the established case law because you may well be in need of it.

I am a Private Hire Driver in the Salford area of Greater Manchester and it is I who own and run the www.greatermanchesterprivatehireassociation.co.uk Web Site not Mr Meek as you stated and it is I who wrote the story and replied to you. When Manchester Airport decided to change the pick up points at the Airport I alone decided to run a Blog site not only for Salford Private Hire Drivers but all the Councils that make up Greater Manchester. I was unaware of Mr Meeks existence
and that of the Association.
There are many problems facing the Private Hire Sector in Greater Manchester, problems which need addressing. I felt a Blog site would allow us to discuss such topics as Health and Safety issues, especially Communication between us all. I wished to talk about was the way the Private Hire Drivers were
being treated in Manchester City Centre. As you well know it’s not only Manchester Cabbies that drop customers off in Manchester off at 7pm its from places like Bolton, Bury and Salford etc and I could see the problems first hand., they need to know about road works and other problems as well as you Manchester Cabbies you may want to know what’s happening in Bolton, Bury and Salford.
I once asked a Councillor why it is so expensive to get a Private Hire Badge in Salford. He explained Salford’s pricing would probably be the same as all other Councils in Greater Manchester. I replied yes but all the Banks charged the same Banking fees but we all know customers are claiming them back. So just because another Council is charging so much doesn’t give them the right to charge the same. Isn’t that called price fixing! The same goes for Black Cab Licenses we need to get our act together.
In Salford we have a penalty system in place, if we do anything wrong we get points and if we get so many we get taken off the road, So this cold effect everyone alike in the future Black Cab drivers as well, another good reason for open discussion.
You mentioned 3 Private Hire Firms operating from the Printworks this is suppose to be a trial, this week I emailed the Council requesting more information!
I alone decided to get in touch with the different agency’s including the Greater Manchester Licensing Committee to gain information about the various issues relating to Greater Manchester Private Hire Drivers. We all want to know what’s going on and open discussion I believe is the best solution of obtaining such!