"Finely balanced judgement"...who are you kidding ? Ever heard of trying to do something.It only takes one of them to radio,position/location/situation.Then the pair,to do something...For a Minister to come out and make that comment is a swipe at all citizens who have been awarded a Life Saving Medallion.Even more so for those familes who have lost a member,awarded posthoumusly,for trying to do what exactly what should have been done on that sad day.You never give up hope,always a chance,"The Golden Hour".

I don't know what their problem was.They are human beings first and PCSOs last. Are they jobsworths or couldn't they swim? If that was me,I wouldn't be able to live with myself!

Yet another Government minister at odds with the majority of the populous.
Considering that it costs the taxpayer about a thousand pounds a week to put the two officer on the street - they are poor value as is the police minister.

We have to understand that PCSO's are not trained for this kind of work and I agree that they acted with the best interest of the young boy at that time.

What is the point of putting untrained part time plods on the streets if all they can do is stand there and scratch their backsides. Nu labour have cut the numbers of real coppers trained in first aid and life saving and replaced them with pretend cops. Chocolate fireguard comes to mind.

Much as I feel not having to respond to Lisa;as the person seems to enjoy the attention.PCSO's are made up of persons who were taught to swim at school.Its part of the Educational Curriculum.So swim,breast stroke,search,and yes a Cop turned up and did that..Am sorry,but if a PCSO turns up when am there,I will be the first to tell them to go away..I want action not inaction.They cant arrest me for that either.

Lisa Moore.

may god have mercy on your soul, comments from the likes of you are only posted on here to inflame others. a child died and maybe the pcso's wouldnt of made any difference to the outcome had they gone in to the water, but they should of at least tried. god forbid but imagine a member of your own family in the same situation and the pcso's stood by when they could, no matter how remotely, of made the difference between a near fatal incident and a death.
as a parent id of been happy in the knoweledge that they tried rather than just stood by waiting for help. and im sure you would feel likewise if it was someone you loved in that water.

I am totally opposed to PCSO's and always have been. Money should be spent employing properly trained Police Officers.

HOWEVER I completely disagree with the vilification of the two involved. They were stood by a lake unable to see the young boy. They did not watch him drown. Going into a unknown lake with probably no view, no idea what was down there etc etc is unwise and could have resulted in further deaths. The headlines then would have been how marvellous a PCSO was to risk his/her life. I cannot say I would or would not have gone in, it is difficult to judge when there was no view of the child. I must also add whilst I feel heartily sorry for the family, losing a child is the most horrendous thing to happen to parents, but they must take responsibility in allowing a ten year old boy with younger siblings to play there. I can only imagine their guilt is lessened by blaming others. I understand this, but I do not think everyone should judge the PCSO's on the scene.

It only needs one of them to summon help.The other could have done what any passer by might do.

"The notion that came up that if you see such a young child floundering and drowning your human instinct is to try to go in and save them, well of, course that is the case.

"The edge yesterday that somehow this was to do with PCSOs replacing policemen I think was fundamentally wrong and a bit irresponsible."

is this some kind of victorian nonsense rhyme?

The Police Federation's Paul Kelly's comments about PCSOs are interesting,"A failed experiment".

I wasn't there and I know my comments won't bring the lad back to life.

So why not just feel for all concerened including the PCSO's, and let those involved be the judges.

lisa, you are so wise i think i've fallen in love with you. please, marry me.

The first lesson anyone going into an emergency service proffesion is taught is not to put your own life at risk. That said, PCSO's are NOT emergency staff. They are by definition and in their name Police Community SUPPORT officers. They are not required to be able to swim or to respond to emergency situations. This should surely now prick the conciences of the powers that be that this country NEEDS more real police officers, fire officers, nurses etc. Yes the 2 individuals concerned will indeed question themselves as to whether they could have saved this boy but we were not there and therefore do not know what we would have done. If the PCSO's cannot swim or are not strong swimmers they were right not to enter the water. Do not judge until you have been in the situation. How many times have recuers lost their lives to help someone?

When you are training to be a first Aider, you are taught NOT to put yourself in danger first. If these officers couldnt see the boy, then they should not have jumped in. Have you ever considered these guys couldnt swim? I know it sounds harsh but really the kids should not have been swimming in this pond in the first place. I hope others learn from this tragedy and realise local ponds are not swimming pools. Fish there by all means, but swim in safe areas!

a sad reflection when todays police, fire and ambulance service are faced with situations of life and death, but in the back of thier minds are management policies which will see them hung, drawn and quartered if something goeas wrong. As a fire officer, i myself have had to make these decisions, knowing that if all goes well, then you've just 'done your job', but if it goes wrong you can end up in court. it takes a brave person to stand back and initiate a rescue plan. many times have i seen police officers dive into canals, not knowing the consequences of thier actions. the fire service lost a good officer not long ago due to making a rescue attempt, and since then all firefighters have had water training and have specialist water incident unit. before you make judgement on the p.c.s.o. take a moment to think of the consequences of people just jumping in willy nilly.

"The notion that came up that if you see such a young child floundering and drowning your human instinct is to try to go in and save them, well of, course that is the case.

"The edge yesterday that somehow this was to do with PCSOs replacing policemen I think was fundamentally wrong and a bit irresponsible."

Is the Police Minister actually Russell Brand? If these events werent so tragic Mr McNulty could be mistaken for a comedian.

Is it me but everytime I see a PCSO he/she is about 20 stone and middle aged.
They are a joke.

Of course the PCSOs are right .What do you expect from this government? you cannot expect the government to admit that their idea of policing on the cheap "DOSNT WORK"??

no they are worse then the police

Voodoo man makes a good point, but that is not the whole of the story. How often do we see headlines which allege that police/firemen/local authorities/hospital staff didn't do something right - somebody sustained injury/died - and that therefore the grieving parents/family etc intend to sue the authority/body which they consider responsible? Leaving aside the cost - to the public usually - of these actions (which are always brought with the highest motives, to name the "guilty", and not just to get hands on the compensation monies), there is also the fact that had one of the PCSOs drowned, his dependants would very likely have brought an action, arguing - perhaps rightly - that he shouldn't have been asked to undertake the rescue; that he wasn't trained for it; and that he wasn't equipped for it. This claim would also have cost the authority/body concerned - or their insurers - a large sum of money.
Inaction isn't negligence, but it is a safe defence against having your every action and thought picked over in legal proceedings, and - perhaps - open Court; and until members of this society lose their eagerness to seek financial compensation for every misfortune which has befallen them, we will not see a common sense approach to H&S, and the duties of the authorities and bodies to whom we look for aid in times of emergency. If a policeman is injured in a chase, he can sue his employer; when a young child falls down some steps, it's the headmaster's fault; when a birth is difficult, it's the Hospital's fault. Amazingly, life is full of dangers; and great numbers of the world's population - not having the "Somebody's to blame" culture that we now possess - get on with their lives, accidents and all. They're even prepared to admit - while we view every death as "tragic" or "avoidable" that they will- eventually - be culled by the Reaper....as will we all. Life's like that: it isn't easy, and often it's not even fun - especially outside of the "civilized" West.

the boys parents were spot on when they stated that PCSO's are "worse than useless"

Most of these comments make very depressing reading.

Just remember - none of us were there, just like the parents weren't there, so none of us are qualified to comment.

Many people who become PCSOs use it as a way to see if policing is for them - and later train to become full police officers.

Do you think that we should get rid of the Territorial Army just because they're not proper soldiers? The TA provides invaluable support for the armed forces without going through the same training.

How about St. John's Ambulance or the Red Cross? Maybe we should tell of them that they're wasting their time?

If I ever need someone lynching, I'll invite you lot.

To jump into freezing, filthy water where one cannot see any submerged obstacles, possibility of contracting Weil's disease and other illness's would be stupidity, especially if one cannot see the submerged person. Upto a year ago I had been a lifeguard for 13 years. It is a very specialist job for which people train every week to make sure they get it right, to ask an untrained, possibly weak swimmer to go in is to court further tragedy. I don't hear much critiscm of the child's parents for not educating their children to stay away from water or teaching them to swim adequately. Ps I am now a PCSO