Public get a say on yobs

Paul R Taylor

August 20, 2007

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Forums set to discuss alcohol-related crime and disorder

THREE advice groups will be set up in Manchester to tackle boozy anti-social behaviour and underage drinking.

The forums, in north, south and central Manchester, will allow residents, licensees, police and council officers to meet every six to eight weeks to discuss alcohol-related crime and disorder.

Last week Cheshire Chief Constable Peter Fahy called for the legal drinking age to be raised to 21 and a smoking-style ban on drinking in public to be introduced.

He spoke out after father-of-three Garry Newlove, 47, was killed in Warrington. Mr Fahy said alcohol is fuelling a wave of violence and disorder in Cheshire and across the country.

But his calls for new measures were swiftly ruled out by the government and criticised by representatives of the drinks industry.

The new forums are proposed in Manchester council's revised draft licensing policy. They will help the authority and police focus efforts on tackling irresponsibly-managed pubs, clubs, off-licences and other alcohol retailers.

Council leader Sir Richard Leese said: "Those who manage their premises well and play a purely positive role have nothing to fear from this policy.

Tolerate

"However, we will not tolerate premises that damage our communities through selling alcohol to drunk or underage people, who compromise the safety of our citizens or who fail to prevent their premises causing a nuisance to the communities in which they are based."

The authority regulates 1,900 premises and is legally bound to review its licensing policy every three years. Its four aims are to prevent crime and disorder, prevent public nuisance, promote public safety and keep children safe from harm.

Sir Richard said the council had already had some success.

He said: "Robust licence conditions, proactive and proportionate enforcement and a strong sense of partnership between our communities, businesses and authorities has enabled us to focus enforcement activity on the minority of badly-run premises.

"Where premises have failed to uphold the licensing objectives we have used the full force of the law to review licences, which has in some cases led to premises losing their licence."
The new draft document is open for public consultation until November 1.

It is on the council's website at www.manchester.gov.uk/ licensing/act and at libraries.

What do you think? Have your say.

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ace, manchester (20/08/2007 at 14:27)

Once again we have even more advice groups .why is it that all we ever do is have groups that does nothing only talk?Its a simple problem to solve but the politicians and councils do nothing only talk .and have group sessions and task forces,that do nothing because within twelve months they either run out of funds or they just fizzle out.And when somebody mentions corporal punishment or capitol punishment for murder they are seen as extremists? Why.i find kids killing people extreme,i see kids terrorising people on street corners "Extreme" Not the actions of somebody who wants to put a stop to people being murdered and terrorised by these yobs.

ace, manchester (20/08/2007 at 15:10)

Who gave all these corner shops licences and allowed them to flourish on every street corner (MCC OF COURSE)Why do we need all cornershops and newspaper shops to sell alcohol? alcohol should only be sold in public houses and very large stores where it can be controlled.

AH, Manchester (20/08/2007 at 15:19)

I agree with ace. What will advice groups do? What a waste of public money AGAIN. They want to sort out these kids - if the birch is seen as too extreme then they should be tarred and feathered in public.

ace, manchester (20/08/2007 at 15:25)

We in east manchester have what we call LAP meetings what a waste of time and energy? we have CCTV wardens we see very little of now? We used to see wardens all over the place but now we dont see them .I get e-mails on the LAP meetings but it dosnt really serve a purpose only waste a lot of peoples time and makes it look like something is being done in east manchester .nothing changes it just gets swapped around from dept to dept .We need real laws for real problems not talk talk that goes nowhere,only looks good on paper .

Black Flag (20/08/2007 at 15:26)

Yet more nonsense from Ace.

Why should only large stores be given licences?

Great idea Ace, take more power away from the little man and give it to big supermarkets, who the government never stand up to.

Andy., Bury (20/08/2007 at 15:51)

I'm guessing that you never actually get involved in local meetings Ace, but instead just whine about your elected officials. I understand your frustrations with the slow response of the authorities but without input from local people their job and that of civil servants is that much harder. I'm no council patsy but I have seen specific issues resolved here when they've been raised at area meetings. People need to do things within their community not just wheeze and whine about how nothing changes. Nothing ever will if you don't try.

The Catcher, In the Rye (20/08/2007 at 16:22)

Let's not mince our words, we know full well that the little corner shop is much more likely to sell alcohol to underage kids. If you don't believe that, look more closely at the results of under cover work.
So, yes, start closing down the offenders - un example pour les autre - that's french dear!

DeeTee, Trafford (20/08/2007 at 16:22)

Just a thought, having read the Daily Telegraph article on the effectiveness of PCSO's, and the current publicity on the so-called yob culture that pervades modern society in the UK: cause and effect seems to be a logical philosophy to adopt. Following a pattern of Socratean logic: remove cops from the streets - there are more yobs. Replace the cops with PCSO's who don't detect crime - public support drops and publc fear rises,creating an evironment conducive to a rise in more yobs (or crime in general). Possible solution : reduce bureaucracy (the Labour watchword - although we now have an unelected leader (commonly called a dictatorship) and reduce crime (increase public confidence) by putting more cops on the streets doing what they do best - speaking to people, gathering intelligence/information about their communities, arresting real offenders, using their common sense, etc.

Silent Majority (20/08/2007 at 16:24)

An advice group? For what?

Just enforce the laws that we already have. If a teenager is drunk then arrest him for being drunk and disorderly, if he/she has alcohol with them then arrest them for posessing alcohol, if the are causing trouble then charge them with affray.

A slightly seperate issue but today it was published that on average each community support officer only issues a fine once every four months! We need tough policing. Maybe a seperate force that are real nasty.
What use in an advice group? It's all about setting up task forces and the like. I want action not words.

Let's round up these yobs and get them off the streets and not be using a brightly coloured sponsored ASBO car.

Ace is right. In some place one can only buy alcohol at government approved places and you need a licence to but it, as in Dubai (unless in a hotel). Alternatively the only way to buy alcohol could be with a credit card i.e. under 18, not a chance. That is assuming these thickos won't be stealing credit cards. Can't win.

Jimc (20/08/2007 at 16:49)

Yet more talk about local forums and discussion groups, instead of these so called elected people sitting on thier backsides and talking about things, do something about it. Justifying thier jobs is what this is all about. Anyone can sit there all day and talk about something. Once again this lies with the parents and the children. Parents dont teach respect and the kids have no self respect. To quote my father " wisdom, knowledge and understanding " this goverment fails in all 3.

ace, manchester (20/08/2007 at 16:56)

Andy., Bury
Ive been to my fair share of meetings that get nothing done and when you mention something constructive you get get ignored?(red tape its called)Last time i asked about the CCTV and was it manned 24/7 and i was just ignored the same went for other people asking questions that didnt suit the local councillors and police at the meeting.

ace, manchester (20/08/2007 at 16:58)

MCC was told that the electorate in manchester didnt want the congestion charge (that was input for the councillors) but did they hear it no they didnt local councils only listen to things that suit them .

Henry Piggot-Smythe, Prestbury (20/08/2007 at 17:51)

It would be helpful if Richard Lees published a list of these premises with an alcohol licence that has been closed down because they've abused their licence by selling to minors. All I seem to read about are paltry fines if they are ever taken to court and you don't read much evidence of that.
A set of stocks set up on the village green would be an ideal way to introduce a new deterrent for these louts if birching the hides off them is out of the question.
It involves no violence just the humiliation of letting the public see their rat like faces without their silly hoods and caps.

Pescado (20/08/2007 at 18:07)

Alabama style work camp prisons. I was in North Carolina last year and saw a work gang on the side of the road cleaning the ditch.
The little darlings from the steets of Mcr would be crying for their mummies within an hour or two.

Happyblue, Failsworth (20/08/2007 at 18:25)

does the word boozy,mean anything NO,anti social behaviour is the problem,Not alcahol,Although i usally try and suggest better way's to eliminate anti social behaviour,i'm starting to turn to more violent solutions,today i had to get to Oldham town centre for job interview,what happend,some kids of a variety of ages,did something to the bus and immobilised it,when the bus driver fixed the problem and was about to drive off,the dam kids did it again,so therefore i decided to take some action i got of the bus and made shore the bus driver managed to get the engine running,now i was preparing to kick the eldest ones rear all the way into the next area,however my intelligence saved me if i had i would have arrested and charged,with this conviction i wouldn't be able to become a teacher.That is the problem,oh and for those wondering i was late for my interview.If someone on the bus had a camera and caught thier behaviour on tape then,i should be allowed to kick the scumbag into the next life,ACE FETCH ME A GUN !

Happyblue, Failsworth (20/08/2007 at 18:30)

How about we sterilise all 14 year old boys,and have married couples,who have good jobs,take an array of tests to decide wheather or not thier intelligent enough to raise kids,if they want kids.simple thier would be no more kids having kids,and those who are having kids have showed there decent people.

should i stand for election or what !

Andy., Bury (20/08/2007 at 18:33)

Last time I looked MCC was a body made up of elected representatives - elected by the people. Congestion charging has been on the agenda for a while - if people felt that strongly they could have made their voices heard at the ballot box, not through a bunch of conflicting polls, some of which have been produced by vested interested (Peel, the councils themselves).

gato (20/08/2007 at 21:49)

Another talking shop!

trueblue, manchester (20/08/2007 at 21:51)

Round these scumbags up & stick them in a large cage outside the shop they tried to buy alcohol from (along with the vendor if they were served). Leave them there dressed as 'clowns'. See how high their street cred is then. No I'm dreaming such positive action might actually work. Andy is right let's have a focus group ,a scoping group then publish a glossy pamphlet.

The Catcher, In the Rye (21/08/2007 at 08:57)

A few posts on here repeating what I think. Not too long ago, naughty, badly behaved young men were birched in public. It hurt, it was demoralising, it was embarrassing and it worked.

Now, let's shop shilly shallying, let's stop the caring talking sessions and start beating them into submission.

A Realist, Manchester (21/08/2007 at 09:32)

To stop anti-social behaviour its easy, dress these fashion concious scumbags in pink and have them cleaning up the city centre, embarresment alone should stop them from doing it again and the city gets free cleaners.

paul teeque (21/08/2007 at 11:22)

More police on the streets and bad lads army will sort them out ; -)

If we didn't blow £10 million on consultation for the C charge perhaps we could afford more police!

marc (21/08/2007 at 11:32)

human farms are the only answer. pack the yobs into battery-style buildings, feeding them on a steady diet of ale and pies. when they reach an omptimum weight, slaughter them and sell the meat to Greggs to be used in steak bakes. this will not only bolster the economy it will revive the floundering British farming industry. come on MCC - bring on the slaughter.

salvation quirk (21/08/2007 at 17:41)

Why don't the government just pretend that these morons who pollute the streets are runway protestors?
Result? Thousands of police smacking them on their weasel-like faces and problem solved within a week.

polkyb (22/08/2007 at 08:49)

It's my observation that it's the 15-24 year olds that have the social problems (which are enhanced by alcahol), so, I believe there is only one thing will sort the problem out.

National service.

After 2 years in the army/navy/RAF, they'll be more disciplined.

AND they'll be able to take their beer!

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