Drink age call dismissed

August 15, 2007

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POLITICIANS and the drinks industry have dismissed a North West police chief's call for the legal drinking age to be raised to 21 in a bid to counter underage, anti-social drinkers.

Cheshire Chief Constable Peter Fahy said he would like to see the legal drinking age raised by three years, as well as a smoking-style ban on drinking alcohol in public places.

But changing the legal drinking age limit was swiftly ruled out by the Government and the Tory Party and criticised by bodies representative of the lucrative drinks industry.

Home Office minister Meg Hillier said: "If we raise the age to 21, it's not going to stop people. It would demonise or prevent a lot of adults who are drinking quite responsibly."

She added there were no plans for a blanket ban on drinking in public and it was up to local councils to decide what was appropriate in their area.

The minister said it was not a problem the government or laws could solve but was a matter of changing social attitudes.

Solution

Conservative home affairs spokesman James Brokenshire said the solution was to give local communities more power over the operation of licensing and more visible community policing.

He said: "Just having a 21-year-limit will not deal with the 11 and 12-year-olds who are binge drinking on a monthly basis and the 15 and 16-year-olds who are getting alcohol very freely."

He claimed the Government had failed by introducing licensing laws which had actually expanded the availability of alcohol and had not tackled issues of family breakdown.

"Rather than getting the cafe culture they were promising, we are actually getting a violent crime culture," he said.

Should the drink age limit be reduced? Have your say below.

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'Don't turn blind eye' - police chief

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BLUE DIBBLE, ashton (15/08/2007 at 17:23)

We have numerous laws available to tackle these issues, problem is that Chief Constables for years have placed little priority on youths causing annoyance.Instead of looking for other options, making excuses, just get something done, stop talking the talk and get on with what you are overpaid to do.

Joey, Ashton under Lyne, (15/08/2007 at 17:42)

There is no age limit for the drinking of alcohol - If you gave your five year old a wee dram - you would be in trouble not the five year old,
It is the sale and how it is consumed that have laws not the imbibers age or lack of it.

jimsdad, Trafford north (15/08/2007 at 18:03)

I find the comments of the tory spokesperson unbelievable, saying that raising the drink age to 21 would not stop the 13 to 16 year olds from obtaining alcohol.she is condoning their actions in saying that.
any person under 16 charged with any offence whatsoever should have both or one parent in the dock with them because they the parents are responsible for their childrens actions until adulthood.Lets see what excuses the parents give because there certainly will be plenty. and then if they are found guilty put them down in the the cells for a few weeeks until they all learn to behave like human beings and not wild animals.

Technobabble, Manchester (15/08/2007 at 18:30)

Enforce the laws we already have before you do anything else, Mr Fahy!

Why do these senior law-ENFORCERS constantly try to create to law as well. It's far too easy for them to flap their lips about things that will never be, like raising the legal age for alcohol, there is no come-back on them.

adders, Withington (15/08/2007 at 18:30)

This is one of the most heartbreaking events I`ve ever read about in the MEN.
I don`t believe increasing the price of alcohol would solve anything as these sort of people would find the money somehow.
But I DO agree with the call for a ban on drinking in public places.
I,like most people, enjoy a drink but I cannot think of any reason for drinking in the street. Pubs, beer gardens at pubs, barbecues and your own garden or yard, yes. So I would push the Government to bring in such a ban and also there should be a ban on youths congregating too. No large group of people in a public place, other than an organized group en route to a destination can be a healthy thing.
Large groups breed trouble as the decent amongst them are led by the most forceful into doing things against their personal nature.
In my time living in Greenheys(Moss Side) and Prestwich I have seen gangs of thirty or more youths on the rampage. I have had eggs thrown at our front door, obscenities shouted through the window at my wife and none of this could occur if such large assemblies were banned.
The police have always taken the easy option, i.e., go after motorists and soft targets. If you complain about hooligans you are told the police can do nothing until a crime is committed.
It`s too late then and also innocent people have had to endure mental torture night after night.
Yes, ban public drinking and stop gangs congregating.

still busy (15/08/2007 at 18:48)

Get booze out of supermarkets for a start, it's picked up with the tea and sugar and is seen as 'normal' to have bottles and cans in with the groceries. Ban drinking in public places - raise the age limit - may or may not work but we won't know until we try!

youth of today, Clayton (15/08/2007 at 20:14)

adders - ban groups from congregating? And who's going to enforce that? The point is, we already have a law banning selling alcohol to under 18s, yet they still drink - so how is raising it to 21 going to help? Or creating anymore silly laws like stopping large groups from congregating. The police simply don't have the capacity to enforce such laws.

And anyway, what this whole issue about is RESPECT. There shouldn't be a problem with a group of people congregating - of any age - providing they act like decent human beings. So why is that seemingly so difficult nowadays? When I was young (and I'm only 27) I can remember being afraid of authority figures - my parents, the police, teachers, even anyone a couple of years my senior. This no longer seems to be the case and if *some* kids can't even show respect towards their parents and teachers, what hope for the rest of society.

And yes I know, not all kids are bad - far from it. Maybe we also need to spend a bit more time focusing on positive stories about young people today, just to redress the balance a bit and to remind people of that fact.

Saint, Middleton (15/08/2007 at 20:44)

I think all alchohol should be sold kind of like fenced off and out of public veiw, (especially childrens veiw) so its not advertised and sold alongside food etc thus giving the impression that its as normal as food.

Also alcopops...the mind boggles how was this allowed to happen? and raising the age to 21 you bunch of clowns people are buying for or selling to youngsters already, invest money in an advertising campaign, stating that undercover investigation is under way to find the shops selling to kids and when caught, all your stock will be used for good causes(beer for the troops, sweets for poor children etc) and this is fair, this is retribution for the greedy to give to the needy.

gato (15/08/2007 at 21:34)

MONEY TALKS!!!

When (15/08/2007 at 22:13)

The Chief Constable is right to kick off this debate.

I do think upping the age from 18 to 21 is the way forward as the problem is one of underage drinkers already.

The real issue is the supply of booze. With test purchasing by the use of 15/16 a number of booze suppliers are being kicked out of the supply market as are supermarkets that are now being more responsible. The biggest problem now is parents actually allowing their kids to take booze from home so long as they are aren't consumed nearby! The other one is odd (very odd) individuals buying booze on behalf of or selling onto underage youngsters.

Answer? Make parents more responsible for the actions of THEIR children both for consuming booze and for supplying them. Ask the Police they will tell you of loads of examples where parents are in denial about the actions of their children.

Let's debate this and gets some positive action.

trueblue, manchester (15/08/2007 at 22:20)

How about policing the existing law before asking it to be raised..

dave evans (15/08/2007 at 22:53)

The police chief is absolutely right..these kids are literally getting away with murder and mayhem on our streets. Zero tolerance is the only way including raising the legal limit for alcohol. Most of the parents are as dysfunctional as their kids and cannot be trusted to deal with the problem. The police cannot be everywhere at once, and despite this,do a spectacularly good job in dealing with these mindless criminals.

Happyblue, Failsworth (16/08/2007 at 00:09)

I for one am very relieved ! I remember it was quite easy too get someone old enough to go into a shop for me and my mates,putting up the age limit wouldn't make a difference.

El Mac (16/08/2007 at 01:00)

I heartily agree with this call, but, we know full well our so called scummy leadership from Number 10, through to town halls throughout the land have no stomach to resolve this issue.

Sure, they bleat and blow hot air, after all, that's what the electorate want to hear but the sad fact is that their over riding driver is purely financial, pressured by the major brewers who site Personal Freedom, Job Security, Tourism etc, etc.

Sadly where vast sums of money are concerned there is no interest whatsoever in safeguarding Joe Public irrespective of the damage that alcohol does.

Real change is when we see those elected actually doing the jobs that they're paid to do, revising legislation, empowering the Police, freeing the Judiciary and cracking down hard!

edwards (16/08/2007 at 07:51)

i would agree that the idiots being targeted are underage drinkers so how would raising the age level have any effect????answer that. Also, surely it must be a fact that if somebody aged 13 years of age is drinking on the street then there must be some element of illegality involved. Start by first enforcing the laws we have already, which are sufficient to stop this, enforce the law against the sale of alcohol to minors and enforce the law of public order which is being breached every night of the week in our area. We need zero tolerance and we need a visible police presence, ok that's not always possible but if not we need a swift and strong response to deal with these issues when they arise. I do not agree in the banning of groups congregating....how many is a group? we walk to the match together and sometimes there can be a dozen of us...do we now have to walk one behind another? how would this law be enforces exactly. We have more than enough laws to deal with these problems and I amazed that no political party is willing to address this issue, it affects a large law abiding proportion of the population and any party that is seen to be dealing with the matter would be in power indefinately. Labour clearly is not working on this issue.

ace, manchester (16/08/2007 at 10:22)

What is the point of raising the drinking age? We have a minimum age for having babys and driving cars and going to night clubs the kids just ignore them so what raising the age limit going to do? the only way is to bring in extreme laws,But nobody is listening You can implement as many laws as you want but todays youths ignore them we need control back in britain.(birch).

anne, manchester, manchester (16/08/2007 at 10:39)

As a mother of a teenage drinker, my stomach turns when I read headlines on teenage drinking. Not only because I am embarrassed, but also because of the view that parents should be held to account.
My daughter has serious depression, and over the last three years has discovered the use of alcohol, we are now at the point where she has been diagnosed as an alcoholic. I hear people say why do they allow it, I don’t! If I try to keep her in, she runs away. If I don’t give her money, the local youth worker reports me to social services. I talk to the police and ask them to arrest her, they say they cant.
I go from place to place trying to get help and its like hitting a brick wall. I am not a dysfunctional parent, I care about my daughter. I suffer everyday because of alcohol and because of the reason my daughter drinks, bullying.
Many adults think its ok to buy alcohol for children, I would say lock them up not just because of the nuisance these kids cause whilst drinking, but also because of the pain they are causing to everyone concerned.

ace, manchester (16/08/2007 at 11:44)

Force single parents with children to take their children to places like the brownies after school and get involved in after school activaties This is a very important part of community building .make it compusary that kids socialise from a early age and carry it through.I see parents walking the streets with very young children at 11pm and 12pm these kids should be in bed for gods sake not walking the streets .parenting should be part of training a young mother (compusary)no training no money.This will cut back on anti social drinking

Pandora (16/08/2007 at 12:03)

Last night I walked along the Paseo (beachfront) with a friend in Marbella, Spain where I live, and commented to my companion that the groups of teenagers, sat quietly eating ice cream and drinking 7up, that if they were in England, the police would put a dispersal order on them because it was likely that Brit kids would be drinking White Lightening as opposed to Lemonade. Alcohol was freely available in drinks machines (unsupervised) and nearby bars. This may seem incredible, but if you British stopped treating your kids anti-socially, they might stop behaving in that way. Less restrictions and policing, not more is the way forward.

Demand82 (16/08/2007 at 12:04)

Ace, the point in brownies and the like is that they are meant to be enjoyable,by forcing people to do something that is going to be the case.Besides any group with links to the church, or any religion, certainly shouldn't be advocated!!

ace, manchester (16/08/2007 at 12:29)

Demand82
This was a example we need to force parents to join in after school activaties,most children like these after school activaties if they start young enough.but sticking a child in front of the TV to keep them quiet isnt the answer and neither is dragging kids around to your mates at 12pm when your child needs a routine.(bad parenting)

Happyblue, Failsworth (16/08/2007 at 12:29)

Firstly You shouldn't try and force kids to do anything,that's why college classes are easier to teach,because nobody feels forced to be their,only people who want to be thier are thier,everybody likes to do something so if they don't want to sit in a classroom,find something they do enjoy,for example if a kid likes cars try and see if a garage can take him on as a sort of apprentice if he enjoys it then tell him if he goes to,and works hard in classes such as maths,english and science then he may continue his aprrentice type work at the garage

Happyblue, Failsworth (16/08/2007 at 12:35)

ACE the television rised me,by watching t.v i learnt more,than mt mother could ever have hoped too teach me,
HONOUR LOYALTY CHIVALRY i liked watching films about medieveal knights,athur and the round table that sort of thing !!

Demand82 (16/08/2007 at 12:47)

The issue here isn't one to do with young people, young people have always drank and will do whilst there is nothing else for them to do.
The culture surrounding drinking in the UK goes way back further than anyone here can remember back to the gin houses in the 18th Century and beyond.
Drinking culture is to embedded in our society for anything to change, however, the current laws do need to be enforced and then the problems we have with under age drinking should ease up.
But what ace needs to realise is that it's not only the lower echelons of society that drink to excess, and not only those from single parent families.
Have you ever been out in Cambridge and seen the state the students get into??

Happyblue, Failsworth (16/08/2007 at 12:59)

Demand 82 you are right,it does'nt matter if your 16 or 40 at the weekend,what does the weekend involve for people,i guess it's a safe bet,alcahol will be ! the only difference is that 16 year olds cannot sit in the pub or go anywhere in peace,now don't jump the gun ace im not saying we should let 16 year olds into pubs it just goes to show thier is nothing to do for most people,let alone a skint 16 year old.

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