AN MP has slammed police proposals to hold peace talks with the city's gun gangs.
Former council leader Graham Stringer said plans for Belfast-style mediation between rival gangs risked giving criminals 'undeserved' status.
The Blackley MP said zero tolerance was the only way to defeat the gangs. But Mr Stringer found himself in disagreement with city centre MP Tony Lloyd and other members of the community. As reported in yesterday's M.E.N., police are talking with colleagues in Northern Ireland to learn more about the mediation techniques used to persuade warring paramilitaries to give up their arms.
Chief Supt Steve Heyward, head of CID at Greater Manchester Police, said he was exploring whether brokered talks sponsored by police and community leaders could end the cycle of revenge shootings which have plagued the city in recent weeks.
He acknowledged gang problems in Manchester were not political but said open talks could be the best way of halting tit-for-tat attacks.
Criminals
But Mr Stringer, whose area has seen five gun deaths in eight years, argued that talking to gangsters would give them the same status as community leaders. He said: "The conflict in Northern Ireland has been going on for hundreds of years and was embroiled in religion and politics. These people are just criminals and should be treated as such.
"It is giving status to villains and gangsters who should be locked up. I'm not saying it is easy to get evidence and the co-operation of people who are on the periphery of gangs but it is traditional and intensive policing and the support of the community that will change things."
GMP insisted the option of talks was one of several approaches being taken.
A spokesman said: "Mediation is only a very small part of a much wider strategy to tackle gun crime. We will continue to use all available tactics. These include tried and tested, as well as innovative, methods."
Central Manchester MP Tony Lloyd said he would back attempts to resolve street disputes through talks.
He said: "Nobody is saying there is an amnesty for murder or for walking down the street carrying a gun. It is about giving every opportunity to people to get out of that way of life and stopping them from committing serious crimes. Something like this is worth a try."
Erinma Bell, from anti-gun group Carisma, also backed the idea if it involved the `right people'. She said: "There are people who are former gang members who could mediate. We need to get to the heart of it or the violence will continue."
Mediation
A gang mediation scheme has been running in Birmingham since 2005. Supporters claim it has helped broker truces between gangs and prevent minor disputes escalating into killings.
Prof Gus John, an urban community expert from Manchester, said he was in favour of some form of mediation but it was `completely inappropriate for the police to be involved'.
He said: "It is wrong for the police to be sending out a message of acceptance to these people. They are not a paramilitary group and should not be elevated to that status."
Where the shootings took place.
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Zero tolerance or mediation? Have your say below.
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PW, Manchester (08/08/2007 at 09:09)
EricH, Horwich (08/08/2007 at 09:12)
If the police know who these people are then make some arrests.
Bejjy ex Salford now Malta, Malta (08/08/2007 at 09:17)
markyboy (08/08/2007 at 09:36)
the people involved are only motivated by greed, to suggest that they are in the same league as NI is bordering on the side of madness.
after all these years GMP should have by now rounded uop this scum and jailed every last one of them for a very long time, unfortuantely GMP do not offer a cast iron witness protection plan for those who would come forward, therefore they are helping to perpetuate the whole gun/drug culture.
zero tolerance is the only solution, NOT negotiation.
Octavius Tinsworth Ace (08/08/2007 at 09:45)
Sensationalizing what is admittedly an unwelcome problem -- page after page of it on both this website and the print edition -- only serves to alarm the general public and paints a very negative image of Manchester to the outside world. For this, the MEN should be ashamed of themselves.
The problem does need to be addressed (although I think it would be more fruitful to concentrate efforts on stopping kids getting involved with gangs in the first place, then hopefully the remaining gang members will just gradually blow each other away) but whipping everyone up into a paranoid frenzy will help no-one.
Greek feeder, Whalley range (08/08/2007 at 09:56)
You are all missing the point I'm afraid. If you find every last gangster in Manchester and locked them all up within days others will have taken their place. Why? Because drug dealing makes so much money. There will always be people who are willing to take the risks involved (getting murdered or sent to prison) because the gains are so high. The only way we are going to reduce gun and gang crime is by tackling the drug problem at root level. Currently 80% of crime in Britain is drug related. If we are to combat drug related gang disputes we have to take away the factor that is causing these disputes. We should do what the Swiss have tried with startling results. If we allow heroin to be prescribed to addicts on the NHS they would no longer seek out the dealers who are causing all the mayhem in Manchester and the rest of the country. In Switzerland drug related crime has fallen dramatically since this policy was introduced. I recognise that it is not an ideal solution but the fact remains that drugs aren't going away. Surely it would be better to control it rather than implement laws and policies that have so far yielded very few positive results. The war on drugs is failing and it's time for a change in tactics.
come-on-city (08/08/2007 at 10:05)
This MP is just using this situation to to get votes from people like the frequent posters on this site, as he is trying to make himself look tough on crime.
I'll say again, as long as their is institutional poverty, broken families, parents who shouldn't be parents, terrible schools, a culture of shunning education, no hope for jobs....no amount of zero tolerance will ever stop it.
PW, Manchester (08/08/2007 at 10:07)
blah blah blah (08/08/2007 at 11:00)
thats right tell it like it is.
Charles Light (08/08/2007 at 11:28)
Mike, Manchester (08/08/2007 at 11:33)
What would be the outcome - "OK gansters, you can deal your drugs for 3 days a week, and go out shooting people on the other 4?"
Find them, infiltrate them, lock them up.
ian, Oldham (08/08/2007 at 12:09)
The Right to Reply (08/08/2007 at 12:38)
mancmonkey (08/08/2007 at 12:38)
trolleyed, Manchester (08/08/2007 at 12:40)
Calamity (08/08/2007 at 12:55)
come-on-city (08/08/2007 at 13:13)
Mediation may be a way to stop killings in the short term, the same with zero tolerance as a short term fix, but again all I hear from MP's are short term quick fix, headline grabbing, vote catching policies that do nothing to actually stem kids joining gangs.
Forward with Frank (08/08/2007 at 13:53)
Paul Nolan.....Super Leeeeeds, Manchester (08/08/2007 at 14:26)
come-on-city (08/08/2007 at 14:30)
come-on-city (08/08/2007 at 14:37)
Forward with Frank (08/08/2007 at 14:45)
II respect and fear the law and wouldn't even give someone a slap in the face. These people carry guns and shoot people for God's sake. They have no respect for the law and other people.
Yes some of these people perhaps got a raw deal and the government didn't do so well at wealth distribution but in this life there are some bad people. Accept it.
If someone shoots someone we shouldn't say that until we understand them we shouldn't lock them up. If the streets are safer without them around then lock them up. If they prefer to live in a trigger happy place hustling a living then go to Bagdhad.
If you go to Saudi or Singapore it's great beacuse there aren't any scum like this around nor thier apologists and one can just get on and enjoy life.
If someone steals in this country the may get a caution at most so it is no deterrent. Do it in Saudi and your hands get chopped off (not sure what happens if you win your appeal) so nobody thieves.
Don't even get me started on the advantages of public stoning.
tram vet (08/08/2007 at 15:08)
guns are NOT the problem, they are a symptom. we need to cure the problem and the symptoms will disappear.
drugs are the problem. simple as that. 4 little words. the sooner people realise that, the sooner this horrible mess can be sorted out. another symptom is under age "innocents" being out on the streets at god forsaken times of the night. should we not be looking at what sort of parents think this is acceptable behaviour for juveniles?
whether people are selling drugs, taking drugs or buying drugs, if they accept that the problem does not need solving, they are part of the problem.
get parenting back to what it was 20 yrs ago, and then start putting all drug related offenders away for 30 minimum sentences. rob these people of their youth, before a gun does it for us!
LKA, Manchester (08/08/2007 at 15:12)
Having just completed a degree in Criminology from the University of Manchester I am aware that there is evidence from similar strategies in Boston for example which suggest a multi-agency approach and problem orientated policing can have a positive effect on gang related crime.
The cynical side of me recognises that the reality is that until we find a way of stopping youngsters joining gangs in the first place - no real end to the problem will be achieved.
Whilst I understand that as an emotive subject peoples reactions and subsequent comments are often a little draconian - it is through no fault of the police that the problem continues.
Previous studies have indicated that an increased police presence has no real effect on the crime rate and in this situation would arguably be the same.
Strategies such as MMAGS should be better supported an we should have a long term objective rather than a short term fix !!
rant over haha
Forward with Frank (08/08/2007 at 15:29)
If we just focus on the cause we will still be here in twenty years time arguing the same as we are today and no doubt were in the nineties.
Get the guns off them and we have a start. If they want to fight each other or use other weapons then they will but I live less than a mile from this and don't really much like the thought of people having their brains blasted out just down the road from me.
I couldn't give a hoot about solving their lack of education, youth clubs ot whatever it is that causes them to be like this. Get them off the streets and stop them killing.
I know people who come from not so priviliged backgrounds who just get on with life and make something of themselves, not blaming everyone else for their poor start in life.
Unfortunately we only get one start in life so make the most of it.
Firstly we need some strong arm tactics to wipe them out.