The Association of Greater Manchester Authorities (AGMA) will meet at Dukinfield Town Hall to decide on the next step in the bid to the Department for Transport for cash from its Transport Innovation Fund - which will leaed to £3bn of public transport improvements.
Manchester City Council yesterday became the eighth council to back the idea and AGMA has already decided that it will make the bid on a majority decision.
Conservative-controlled Trafford is the only authority to oppose the plan. Stockport has not yet finished a consultation with its residents and has delegated the vote at the meeting to its chief executive.
Sir Richard Leese, city council leader, who will chair the AGMA meeting, said: "If we do nothing to improve our transport, we will lose 30,000 of the 210,000 jobs due to come to Greater Manchester in the next 15 years.
"This is not an option. We need to make this bid to the Transport Innovation Fund to improve our roads and trams, get more control over buses and trains, and improve life for everyone living and investing in our city region.
Improvements
"However, let me reiterate - there can be no charging until improvements in public transport are in place."
A six-week public consultation has been carried out and a survey by polling experts GfK NOP showed that 69 per cent of people and 60 per cent of businesses in Manchester wanted the bid to be submitted.
Earlier in the week, the Greater Manchester Chamber of Commerce announced the result of its own survey of businesses which showed that 57 per cent were against the bid in its present form after one of the biggest responses it had ever had.
Eighty per cent believed the Government would introduce a national road pricing scheme in the future and 53 per cent felt congestion charging was a price worth paying for reduced jams on the road if linked to guaranteed public transport improvements.
Angie Robinson, Chief Executive of the Chamber, said: "This is another important piece of information relating to the debate on congestion, public transport and congestion charging. We had a massive response to the survey, which shows how important this issue is for our members. More than 600 members replied which is one of the highest responses we've ever had.
"The survey confirms the heavy dependence of business on the road network and the fact that for many congestion is costing them money."
If the AGMA members vote to carry on, the bid has to go in by the end of July and the government will decide by December if Greater Manchester has beaten West Midlands and eight smaller authorities.
But it is expected to be five years before charging starts.
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Been through the survey again.
It constantly goes on about agreement when giving the percentages, even if it is something like ¿43 Percent in favour¿ that means 57 percent disagree.
It very very rarely says something like "60 percent disagreed"
Can MEN please post a link to the survey so everyone can read it please?
Or does MART have to do a simplified condensed version?
And there is no mention anywhere in the survey of the 2 billion pound loan with 30 year payback paid for by the congestion charge.
It seems that they were not told about it.
Why?
"Manchester City Council yesterday became the eighth council to back the idea and AGMA has already decided that
IT WILL MAKE THE BID ON A MAJORITY DECISION"
The rules they are supposed to abide by require a 100 % vote by councils in order to act.....
They have changed the RULES to get it in.
What about the councils who said No to it? Nobody can make them charge it. Let's see what happens about that!
So AGMA has ALREADY decided that it will be a majority decision ???
I thought the FIRST thing they had to decide on was whether or not they could actually do that without full approval of all the councils.
who ever is in charge when the CC comes in clear your desk cos' you will be voted out!!! also will the cost of travel with this super new transport system be subsidised for working people?? i think not
So AGMA have already changed some of the rules they set at the very beginning of this process (from a consensus to majority vote) - this shows why we cannot trust them over this.
Other councils that have voted to support this bid HAVE ONLY DONE SO on the belief that every other council has to be in support for a bid to be made - it will be interesting to see if they stand by this with Trafford voting 'No' or whether they capitulate to the pro-toll trolls.
These people will brazenly lie through their teeth to force a Toll Tax on Greater Manchester!
This is not an option,These words are Tony Blairs favourte words, he made them in every speech. Now Blair has gone has Dick Leese had his brain transplanted,because like blair he cannot make his mind up.2005 he said congestion charge would damage business now he says if we dont introduce it,that will harm business. Make your mind up Dick.
Brace yourselves councillors for the riots of Manchester, do you not realise that you are committing political suicide by rail-roading this through without the consultation of the tax paying public, who I will remind YOU that WE pay your wages, but hopefully for not much longer.
"AGMA has already decided that it will make the bid on a majority decision."
This is bad journalism! I think MEN is trying to say AGMA has already decided it wants to make the bid like this by changing the rules?!
QUESTION - To change the rules do all x10 have to agree on a rule change or just majority?
If 8 councils want the C charge anyway then obviously 8 will vote to change the rules which is a lose lose situation.
Here¿s one for Richard (you can¿t have a referendum because it is not a simple yes/no) Leese
Question 1) Do you agree with a congestion charge for Greater Manchester ?
Answer Yes or No; If you answered No please answer Question 2
Question 2) If the sum of £3 billion, ( £1.2 billion grant and £1.8 billion loan paid back over 30 years) was available to spend on public transport improvements if a congestion charge was brought in.
Would you agree with that congestion charge ?
Answer Yes or No
To gain a true balanced answer, add the entire % Yes answers together and the entire % No answers together and divide each by 2 to give the average and you will have a result.
Example
Question 1) Yes = 40% No = 60%
Question 2) Yes = 60% No = 40%
Totals 100 100
Divide By 2 = 50% 50%
I have asked two relatively simple questions that Richard Leese has himself used as examples (although he tends to avoid the word loan )
This example is not rocket science; it is fairly simple,and should give a balanced result, that even I, for one, would concede is indicative of the genuine views of the people of Manchester.
manchester city council not asked our opinion on road tolls.as usual do what they want to do,let manchester go alone and become a gost town
Is there anybody who knows anyway that people can get a council thrown our because people have lost confidence? impeach them or similar.If so would it be worth starting a petition to get this council and its leaders out......
Do not blame all the Labour councillors,Leese,Jones and Smith are forcing them to vote yes.The ones I have spoken to tell you they have NO OPTION than to vote yes or lose their position,freedom of speech as gone in he Labour party.
Shayla
The Transport Bill currently before Parliament when passed will ensure that the power that Trafford Council currently has to veto any congestion cameras/beacons on the roads in Trafford will be removed to allow them to be fitted even if is is against the council wishes.
I have spoken to my own councillor, who feels that this is what will happen sad though it may be.
hey, all you its only 5 pounds a day brigade.
read this one
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1012/1012114_jones_honoured_at_awards.html
8 pounds a day now.
According to the BBC, Stockport have now said they are prepared to vote No.
And now I am told Stockport are also against this scheme - good on them!
paul teeque: If they have to have a consensus currently which is my understanding, that means that all 10 have to agree to change to majority voting. If this is the case, I don't see Stockport and Trafford voting to change to a majority as they would be committing suicide in terms of resistance to the con charge which they both oppose. Therefore, I don't see how the con charge bid can be submitted if AGMA currently work on a consensus basis.
Let me tell you about my brush with congestion this morning.
My partner is going to London today by train. Since sha had two cases full of legal documents that were difficult to carry I drove her a mile and a half accross the city centre to Piccadilly.
Not that much traffic about really but on virtually every junction there are buses blatantly going through on red. When the traffic light in my direction was on green at one stage three buses went accross me!
Buses blocking boxed junctions was another so no traffic could move in the direction that had the green light.
On going down Whitworth Street it is now reduced to one lane near the Village because a building is being constructed that nobody there wanted. Oh and it's on the site of an old car park.
So we have two lanes that will now be one for 18 months because a developer wants to build there. On arriving at Piccadilly I couldn't park in the drop off area as taxis were parked in it. In fact there were about 30 taxis parked on double yellows on Fayrefield Street, thus reducing that to one lane.
After managing to drop my partner off I decided to go under the old BT building and head for the Mancunian Way. Guess what? The road was close because developers are turing in to a hotel.
Half the problem with traffic flow in this town is that the council agree to close off roads at a whim.
What's the answer? Tax the motorist.
Almost every day there is a new revelation about what Manchester Council is planning. Until the full facts are revealed how can any opinion poll be accurate?
Do the local authorities now know the full story, or are they being asked to vote blindly on this proposal?
AGMA's thorough consultation that eventually decided YES the people of manchester do want the con charge and £2bn loan was a misguided and misleading farce.
Imagine if this went through the consultation process for where to put bus lanes, narrow roads and improve the public transport ?! I reckon a large chunk of the £2bn would land in dicky leeses bank account!
Cadishead,a very strong Labour ward lost its Labour YES man/woman in the last elections because they are fed up with broken labour promises they now have a conservative and what a differnce already.They will listen to you,not talk to you as though you are stupid.I Can see more labour losing seats in tne future.Labour has done for Mancheter what two world wars could not,broken and run down the city.Well done Leese and co.
Anyone out there with lawyer partner or parent?
Have citizens a case of Misfeasence??
I have just been looking in depth at this, and have found some interesting documents on the AGMA website. If you look on this link: http://www.agma.gov.uk/ccm/agma/AGMA_Agendas_and_Minutes/Executive/AGMA_Executive_Papers_20072008/July2007.en
you will find the agenda for the meeting on Friday, and also the proposal document for the TiF bid to be voted on. Nowhere on the agenda is there mention of a plan to vote on decision making. Furthermore, the last meeting was the 29th June and from the minutes of said meeting on the same page, I can't find anything changing to majority voting.
Based on this, I don't see how the MEN can report that they have already decided since there haven't been any other meetings.
So what was his award A Life Long Pass allowing him free travel throughout Gtr Manchester and exempting him from the Congestion Charge - Can we please get this straight - we are not bidding for £3billion - £2billion is a LOAN to be repaid over the next 30 years. Anyone can get that. Central Government is bending over backwards to LEND money with the interest it attracts so how come Jolly Roger gets an award - Where is the investment over the LAST TEN YEARS in public transport. Frittered away, but he still had £500,000 sitting in the bank ready to pay for that piece of fictional garbage in the form of the GMPTE Leaflet - OUR FUTURE TRANSPORT - The man is a menace and should be sacked immdediately by GMPTA and also resign his position as Councillor for Irlam - WHAT PUBLIC TRANSPORT IMPROVEMENTS ARE COMING SALFORDS WAY - Answer - NONE
2 points of fact: The AGMA executive approved the principle of majority voting at its last meeting but asked for further work to be done on how it would work in practice whilst pointing out that the TIF decision should be made by consensus (see minutes of last meeting on AGMA website)
Also, contray to the MEN saying that Manchester is bidding against other areas, Manchester is likely to be the only area bidding as most other areas (West Mids, Shrewsbury, Cambridge, Bristol etc.) have either pulled out or are seeking more time to consult.