First could invest £35m in cleaner, greener buses, increasing capacity by up to 25 per cent on some busier roads.
The new buses would have some of the cleanest engines in Europe and could include `tram style' models, with ultra-low walk-on/walk-off doors.
The expansion is part of a programme that has already provided advanced driver training for all drivers, CCTV in all new vehicles and using cleaner bio-diesel in all buses.
But the huge fleet increase is only likely to go ahead in full if Greater Manchester wins its bid for £1.2bn from the government's Transport Innovation Fund (TIF), plus permission to borrow £1.8bn more. In return, the government would expect a congestion charge of up to £5 a day at peak times.
Ian Davies, managing director of First's bus operations in the area, said: "We are 100 per cent behind the TIF bid.
"We have proved that you can increase bus and rail passenger numbers where local authorities and operators invest in services and infrastructure.
"London led the way with congestion charging. It also invested heavily in public transport first - and demonstrated that more people are willing to use public transport.
"Manchester could face an increase in car journeys of 10 per cent in the next five years, with a rise in congestion, a further deterioration in air quality and an increase in society's impact on the environment.
"Something has to be done to arrest this - and the TIF bid is the right solution."
First employs 3,500 people in the region. The company expects to carry 20 million passengers this year, up seven million since 2004. Tweet
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Are we buying these buses for a private company?
Of course first are 100% behind the TiF bid - a large percentage of the TiF money (most of which is a massive loan) will go directly into their back pockets!
Much the same as the majority of the GM public are against this as this money will end up being paid for by us over decades!
Yet more pressure being put on the electorate? if you dont get behind this congestion charge you will not get new buses? my answer to that would be? if you dont update your buses you will not get anymore contracts from manchester .then manchester should ask stagecoach or some other company .dont get railroaded into backing this congestion charge JUST VOTE THIS LABOUR LOT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE .
Buses no longer run over routes that many want. Nor do the operate with any real frequency except on busy routes. And they are overpriced. Half a dozen stops on first bus will now cost £1.70 - a rip-off. I never thought it would ever happen but the trams are now cheaper on a return journey than the buses. In my lifetime this has never happened on the trams, or the trains before them. It now costs £2.10 return to the city centre on a tram (£1.90 during engineering works) compared to £3.40 on a bus.
The taxpayer should stop subsidising these bus companies that don't really need the subsidies. The taxpayers have no control over their own money so they pay money in to supplement profits whilst getting a worse service.
One thing that bus companies should go back to is the peak and off-peak fares system. I seem to recall this operated between 7am and 9.30, and again between 4.30 and 6.30pm.
We also need cross city bus services and if First and Stagecoach are not willing to do it, then councils should be allowed to do so with exclusive use of the full routes.
The Labour Government should keep to their manifesto promise of taking all public transport back into public ownership and then we might get a system we can be proud of.
Lets bring all buses back into council ownership? now that would shut all these private companies up wouldnt it? I think we should all ask for our transport system to be brought back into council ownership then at least the buses that get bought by ratepayers/taxpayers will be owned by us? and no more greedy directors/councillors .BRING BACK COUNCIL OWNED BUSES....IT WORKED.
First could invest ? first should be made to get cleaner buses regardless? ive seen some of firsts buses.Spewing black/blue smoke from their buses, so before you start getting on your high horse about the enviroment get your stock of buses clean first,then maybe you might not need new buses.
as long as they don't put more 192 buses on stockport road i couldn't give a toss what they do.
I think people should take their digital cameras out with them and when you see a bus spewing out fumes and black smoke you should take the photo and send it to the council to fine the bus company for polution. this could bring in some revenue?? yet another tax ..just think all that extra money rolling in.
Princess Pam... it wasn't the bus operators who chose not to run cross city routes. It was Manchester City Council who in their wisdom banned them and closed off various streets in the city centre to buses, thus forcing people travelling from one side to the other to get off at one terminus then hike across the city to a different terminus for their 'connecting' service. This is another issue that needs to be dealt with to make public transport more attractive.
Agreed that First already receive too much public money though. Their favourite trick is to give notice that they are axing a commercial route that is essential to people living in certain areas saying it isn't cost effective. So GMPTE has to find money to pay for a replacement service. Then when it goes out to tender, First are often the only company to bid so get two sources of income to run the same service they were running before.
Its just a ploy. First CAN INVEST the money, carrot and stick. Let's get this right First run buses and train ALL OVER Britian so they have the money to invest in more greener and cleaner buse's, but they DONT WANT TO as they want to use other peoples money and then when it all goes wrong they can blame other people.
I think all those against being taxed another £1200 a year for nothing owe First a big thank you.
Let's just review their message again. For 35m quid they said they can revolutionise public transport. Now hang on, Richard and Roger reckon it will cost 3bn quid to revolutionise public transport. Now if all we need do is raise 35m quid we can have a whip round at Old Trafford one night instead of this tax. Problem solved.
On a more serious note, First seemed quite specific that they would put the buses on the busiest routes, i.e. the ones where they get revenue from passengers and a subsidy and they get to block the traffic and people already without a local bus service would still not have a local bus service.
Buy your own buses.
Now that it is clear most people do not want the CC, I have been looking for a buyer for the TIF bid on behalf of AGMA and I think I have found one and I also think they would take to Mr Jones.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/6909823.stm
Now there's congestion isn't it.
So, First will only invest money in new buses if they don't have to invest their own money? Surely any business should be investing their own money into improvements to customer service and satisfaction and efficiency. Basically they are trying to blackmail public transport users to back the congestion charge.
Well oh COURSE first bus is behind the TIF plan.
They are a private company about to be on the end of a substantial cash injection paid by the people of Manchester... They will be able to update their fleet without actually having to pay for it.
I say again. This all stinks.
Same goes for Metrolink, of course. Our money should NOT be lining their pockets. I bet you that the year in which we buy them new trams, they make record profits for their shareholders.
Maybe AGMA should consider buying out First, Stagecoach and Metrolink to make them truely by the people for the people companies... Like it was before privatisation.
With no one making a profit, maybe the services would improve withoug need for extra cash.
First have had these new buses coming for a number of years now. There are arriving in drips.....But don't hold your breath. Its a 10 year plan which means by the time the last buses arrive, the first ones will be ready to be replaced! They also take their 'Customers ' for granted. Look at the frequency of the Stagecoach buses on their main roads into Manchester in the early/late hours and on Sundays. Then compare that frequency with that of the First buses! There is a MASSIVE difference....First DON'T want to run a service, just sardine as many 'customers' as possible to increase profits...Just look it up! The sooner bus services are decided on need rather than profit the better.
it's a know fact that Stagecoach respond to passenger feedback. if a service warrants an increase in frequency, be it weekday/evenings/weekends, then they will up the frequency. First on the other hand, don't really seem to listen. i live in Irlam, and on a sunday, the 67 is only a half hourly frequency(when they show up), and the 100 an hourly frquency. 3 buses an hour on probably the busiest day of the week, and First don't want to know. no wonder people use their cars.
NB, yes the cross-city ban was imposed by Manchester City Council, but that was because of some operators (now long gone) using ancient buses that were spewing out masses of fumes whilst travelling between Victoria Station and Piccadilly Gardens.
That ban has now been lifted - hence the bus lane being installed in Church Street a few years ago, so any operator could run a cross-city bus service - as long as there aren't too many more buses using Piccadilly Plaza due to the limit on the number of buses per hour using the facility.
In fact, Bluebird recently made an attempt at a "sort-of" cross-city service by extending some of their buses on their 77 service (Manchester to Moston) to the university (and still do run a subsidised journey to Loreto College in south Manchester). And technically the number 2 Metroshuttle bus is cross-city, from Oxford Road to Victoria.
there is no actual entry into piccadilly plaza from victoria/church street. the only way in is from mosley st or portland street coming from princess st direction, which doesn't really encourage cross city bus routes. maybe if the council hadn't pedestrianised the gardens, maybe there could've been cross city bus routes
I'm still using my car whether they buy gold plated buses.
mancmonkey: me too. God knows what sort of half wits will be driving all these buses.
I wouldnt bother giving Queens road Depot any as firehappy JG will not have any drivers left to use these buses ha ha ha