The great road debate

Alan Salter

July 13, 2007

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Council leader Richard Leese

CONTROVERSIAL plans to introduce congestion charging on the roads of Greater Manchester face intense scrutiny when key players in the plans go head-to-head on TV.

Organised by the M.E.N., the Question Time-style debate will take place at Manchester's Urbis on Tuesday evening before an audience of business and council leaders and M.E.N. readers.

It will be televised by our sister TV station Channel M.

Sir Richard Leese, leader of Manchester council and one of the bid team, will be on the panel. He will face Graham Stringer, his predecessor as council leader, now MP for Blackley, a member of the Commons transport committee and a fierce opponent of charging.

Trafford Centre owners Peel Holdings are sending managing director Andrew Simpson to explain their opposition. Their own survey put 80 per cent of businesses against the charge.

Environmental campaigner Dave Coleman will represent an alliance of voluntary organisations supporting congestion charging. Drivers will be represented by Sean Corker, who leads pressure group Manchester Against Road Tolls, which has launched a petition against the idea.

Speaking for the business community will be environment consultant Miranda Allan, vice-president of Wigan Chamber of Commerce and chairman of Greater Manchester Chamber's environment and transport committee.

The evening will begin with a short explanation of the plans by Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive head of planning Dave Newton, who will stay to explain any technical points which arise during the debate.

Questions will be submitted to chairman Andy Crane in advance, but the panel will not have sight of them. The debate comes at the height of the consultation process to decide whether Greater Manchester should press ahead with a bid to the government for money from its Transport Innovation Fund. This could bring £3bn for public transport improvements - including three new Metrolink extensions in return for agreeing to be a pilot area for road pricing.

The leaders of Greater Manchester's 10 district councils have until the end of this month to decide whether to submit the bid.

The government will decide which of 10 authorities in England should get the money by December.

What do you think of the congestion charge? Have your say.

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Simon B, www.manchestertolltax.com (13/07/2007 at 06:57)

Got my email yesterday inviting me to this.

Will be asking you some very hard questions Richard.

You wont able to dodge them this time, and any untruths will be recorded this time.

Rimsky (13/07/2007 at 08:48)

Simon B - What questions will you be asking?

Simon B, www.manchestertolltax.com (13/07/2007 at 09:09)

the right ones.

I dont want to give away what I am going to ask so he can not prep answers.

Simon B, www.manchestertolltax.com (13/07/2007 at 10:08)

I see the Green Dave Coleman
is on the panel.

Do not know much about him, but with low emission cars and motorcycles not being Greater Manchester Con Charge exempt he is going to have a hard time selling the green issue on this.

paul teeque (13/07/2007 at 11:12)

What time will this be broadcast on Channel M?

Wor Bobby, Salford Quays (13/07/2007 at 11:53)

I sincerely hope that the "invited" audience are not loaded to favour the "against lobby" and that they are from all divides on the issue. I'm seriously interested to know what alternatives people propose, to reduce congestion in the city. The powers that be must also remember that charging is "NOT" an option until a suitable public transport network infrastucture is put in place and those that are against CG must wait for the plans and see how it will work before dismissing the CG out of hand..

Lets hope common sense prevails and not personal & political agendas.

paul teeque (13/07/2007 at 11:59)

I'd be interested to hear from the horses mouth how turning 4 lane roads into 2 lanes is beneficial?

The benefit of getting a bus journey time down for one bus by 2 minutes doesnt outweigh the cost of 1 hour increase in journey time for 100's of cars.

Fred Parker (13/07/2007 at 12:16)

Simon B, I too have an invitation for Tuesday, and I think you will have to email your questions in advance otherwise I do not think they will be allowing you to ask

Simon B, www.manchestertolltax.com (13/07/2007 at 14:30)

Someone suggested this nice idea

The

GMPTE Future Transport leaflet

lets post it back with your comments

GM Future Transport
c/o GMPTE
2 Piccadilly Place
Manchester
M1 3BG

ace, manchester (13/07/2007 at 15:47)

OVERSPENDING on major Government projects has cost each British household £900, a survey revealed yesterday.

Im sure that congestion charges come under government spending???once again labour proves that its useless at running a country "Unless you call running it into the ground?"A excuse......

m, manchester (13/07/2007 at 16:08)

if Richard Leese and Roger jones think the congestion charges is so wonderful why don't they use all there money from wager and perks and other income to personally fund the 3 billion pound needed to run and improve the needed changes

I bet you not one of the Cllrs will be actually paying the charge out of their on pockets but will be included with in the council's cllrs perks package i also suggest that all the city council officials I.E. lord mayors and lord lieutenants and all the high a mighty hob knobs and the queen and her hang on's i.e. personal staff and protection squad pay the charge themselves and not have those charges added to the community charge payers pockets or make them all use the so called wonderful public transport system...

www.manchestertolltax.com

Joey, Ashton under Lyne, (13/07/2007 at 16:20)

Here is a suggestion for the suits at the town halls - Find all your employees who use a car to travel to and from work and take twenty five quid a week out of their wage packets - explain in a nice letter it is a test scheme to see the effects on congestion charging. A word of advice - be prepared for bad language and possible physical violence.

ace, manchester (13/07/2007 at 16:31)

These politicians with their great ideas of ""what we want"" sickens me? remember the great dome in london,not to mention the spike outside the manchester stadiun? that falls appart? its ok for these people who make a very big wage from the taxpayer/ratepayer .they leave their jobs and go onto other jobs leaving the great british ratepayer/taxpayer to live with their messups. blair is one ?Dicky leese will no doubt leave the ratepayers of manchester with the bill for b-of-the-bang? and if he gets away with it the great road tax ripoff?.NOT TO MENTION ALL THE AGRO WITH A CASINO. STOP THEM AT THE BALLOT BOX IS THE ONLY WAY.............VOTE THEM OUT OF POWER...

lenthelurker, Sale (13/07/2007 at 18:28)

Lot of nonsense being written here. All those against the congestion charge need to answer some questions:
what would you do to solve congestion?
how would you pay for improving public transport?
why do you think you have a 'right' to drive wherever you want whenever you want regardless of the consequences?
Stop thinking about yourselves, start coming up with some answers. And leave the ridiculous conspiracy theories out of it.

PW, Manchester (13/07/2007 at 19:27)

lenthellurker, or is it lentil eater? We have a right to drive our cars, having paid for the road tax, excise duty on petrol etc etc etc. Most of us are quite glad to get out of our vehicles, and that's after a journey either to and from work. I hate driving, but my shopping needs and workplace location dictates I need to use my paid-for car to get to and from the place where I earn money to pay my taxes.

As for curing congestion, put that to the councils and government who have been strangling the roads (for both buses and cars) for the past 10 years. They've been causing people to spend more time than they need to on the roads, and most likely three or four times as much pollution as necessary. Is that being environmentally-conscious? It's pollution that we are all concerned about.

For the record, I enjoy walking and cycling as my past-time, but wish to have more leisure time to do so, rather than have to catch 3 buses to get to and from work. The Metro-Link is irrelevant to me, and to about 250,000 of my neighbours.

rammylad, ramsbottom (13/07/2007 at 19:28)

to lenthelurker, first things first, who declared that we have such a congestion problem that we need a ï¿½2bn loan to deal with it. I walked across town todaym Victoria to Piccadilly and saw very few cars or buses and that was rushhour. I walked across London earlier this week, Euston to Berkley Square and it was gridlocked, every inch of the way.

I have no issue with the traffic on my route to town so why am I to be charged more money?

Richard and Roger are scamming us. Let's put a stop to it.

lenthelurker, Sale (13/07/2007 at 19:47)

rammylad - maybe that's because you've already got a metrolink line from Bury into town. So have I. the tram's already full by the time it gets to Sale, of course, so it's no good to me unless we get some extra cash in to buy some more trams. But what about the rest of Greater Manchester?

lenthelurker, Sale (13/07/2007 at 19:56)

PW. Hate lentils, just back from the chippy, as you asked. I drive a car too, I paid for it too (and the road tax, and the petrol duty), I hate it too, I want an alternative. You're telling me what won't work, give us a better answer. But carrying on as we are isn't working, is it?
We can wait for the government to build us more metrolink lines, but we both know that's not going to happen. How else are we going to raise the money? (and don't tell me to sell the Airport - the people who suggested that own Liverpool Airport, so we know what they're after)

Appleton family, Warrington (13/07/2007 at 20:04)

I work daily in Manchester and have no option to take `public` transport to undertake my work which can be at different sites throughout the region daily or require numerous intra region trips.

Through deregulation of the mass transportation systems we easily forget that the British Public transport system does not exist (That which the balance of the taxation is touted as being available to pay for)

Trains - privately owned and run to make a profit for a corporation

Buses - privately owned and run to make a profit for a corporation

My car - used only when required (it costs me to run so I don't choose to use it unnecessarily), and when I do it is for the benefit and well being of my family

Mass transportation would not enable my job role to be effectively undertaken and would cut my output in many cases to a third of current rates.

It would require the current time distribution change as follows

(travel vs. work )

currently 2.5-3hrs-travelling 7.5hrs-working

proposed 6hrs+-travelling 7.5hrs-working

How does this affect the work/home life balance?

ace, manchester (13/07/2007 at 21:01)

lenthelurker, Sale
Why cant people like you see whats going on in manchester? ashton old road was at one time a four lane road now most of the day its a two lane road?now what is the thinking behind that little ruse?.Ill tell you it was to get the occasional bus into manchester faster at the cost of congesting the traffic ?this is total madness on behalf of traffic designers?To turn a four lane road into a two lane road at the busiest times of the day? you dont have to be einstein to work it out....

derick (14/07/2007 at 13:26)

if i remember right the old 53 bus service crossed EVERY major artery in the twin CITIES when their POPULATION within the old city boundarys was i.3 million and was approximately every 3 minutes during rush hour if the cities and SUBURBS HAD SOME FORESIGHT THEY WOULD BUILD A CIRCULAR LINE PREFERABLY UNDEGROUND to connect with every TRAM AND SURFACE RAIL ROUTE WITH INTER CHANGES FOR BUSES AS WELL do it RIGHT AND DO IT ONCE and watch the population EXPAND where people would find it easier to USE !! public TRANSPORT BARCELONA MADRID AND OTHER LARGE EUROPEAN CITIES HAVE GOT IT RIGHT AND STOP WHINING ABOUT LONDON YOU ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO BUILT THE SHIP CANAL GET ON WITH IT AND SHOW THEM HOW with PUBLIC AND PRIVATE ENTERPRIZE ACTUALLY WORKING TOGETHER it can be done and lead AGAIN do not FOLLOW !!!!

Joyce Ellen Chadfield (14/07/2007 at 17:14)

I am sorry, but I feel that the decision has already been made for us. There are far too many powerful people on the pro side and lots of plans seem to already be in the pipeline. In the Altrincham/Sale area for months there have been personnel measuring the streets and scrutinizing the traffic. As far as costs are concerned, I can see lots of people who are compelled to pay the charge going cap in hand to employers (many of whom will have approved of it) and asking for a wage increase to cover what is, after all, yet another stealth tax on an already overnurdened taxpayer. Surely this charge will also have an affect on the cost of food, etc., because companies being forced to pay will also feel obliged to pass it on.

rammylad, ramsbottom (15/07/2007 at 14:06)

lenthelurker - You are correct there is a tram from Bury, but after 4 1/2 years of using it I decided to go back to using my car as my home life and wallet were suffering. I was spat on by yobs and Metrolink did nothing, I was verbally assaulted by yobs and again Metrolink did nothing, I had to endure smokers and again Metrolink did nothing, I had to endure the Metrolink ticket staff chucking me off as their machines had failed and that is why I had no ticket, but did they care it was there fault, no. The only thing Metrolink care about is the cash from ticket sales. Breaking the law, that's ok as long as you have a ticket.

At £4.80 a day + either £4 to park near Bury tram station or £3.20 for a 3 mile / 30 minute bus journey it is both easier, quicker and cheaper to use my car. I now have a much improved home life, more money and I am not being abused either by yobs or the system. I will never go back to using the tram. During the 4 1/2 years I repeatedly wrote to Metrolink with suggestions on improving the service such as running shorter routes in parrallel with the longer routes, i.e. send two trams out from Shudehill, one goes all the way to Bury the other goes to say Whitefield. They then both return to Shudehill. That way people closer to town can actually get on the trams and it will not clog the system. Did I hear anything in reply, did they even acknoledge the letter, you guessed right. No.

ace, manchester (15/07/2007 at 17:26)

They should have built massive car parks on the outskirts of manchester and the trams/buses should be taking people into the centre of manchester? but the cost of the parking should be included in the ticket price and should be cheap? but that wouldnt solve their problem? (they want more money out of you) a stealth tax under the guise of public transport and congestion charges.just look at dickys face? would you trust this man to look after our future???

PW, Manchester (15/07/2007 at 19:32)

lenthelurker/Kurt.
Glad to see you like good, wholesome but occasional food.

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