GREATER Manchester is poised to scoop £3bn for a public transport revolution in return for congestion charging after it emerged its chief rival might not put forward a similar scheme.
As revealed in later editions of yesterday's M.E.N, Birmingham city council boss David Bull said the West Midlands had not decided whether it wanted road pricing - and could yet say no.
Ministers signalled a refusal to consider congestion charging would virtually rule councils out of the running for massive sums of public transport cash.
Greater Manchester is planning to bid for £1.1bn from the government's Transport Innovation Fund (TIF) and permission to borrow £1.9bn more against revenues from its proposed charge of up to £5 a day. Such sums would virtually exhaust the fund, worth up to £200m a year, for the foreseeable future - ruling out the possibility of a similar-sized scheme somewhere else.
Councils have been told the fund will only be made available if they consider `suitable' measures - widely understood to mean congestion charging.
Transport Minister Gillian Merron told the M.E.N: "Anyone who wants the money should look at the very clear guidance we have already issued for bidders.
"They (the West Midlands) need to think extremely carefully whether they are going to meet their own objectives in tackling congestion."
Coun Bull's shock announcement came at a traffic management and parking conference in Manchester.
It delighted Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Authority chairman Roger Jones, who has played a key role in drawing up Manchester's proposals.
He said: "West Midlands can duck the issue if they wish. I think we are putting ourselves in pole position by forging ahead." Greater Manchester and the West Midlands are among 10 parts of Britain given money to prepare Transport Innovation Fund bids.
Ministers have made clear this fund will be the only source of substantial public transport money in years to come.
Greater Manchester's scheme will only be formally submitted if it is judged to have the support of the public and business community.
What do you think of the congestion charge? Have your say.
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Chris, Irlam (13/06/2007 at 10:56)
Kurt Stephens, Sale (13/06/2007 at 11:07)
How will we be consulted on this proposal?
At the meeting of the Association of Greater Manchester Authorities (AGMA) Executive on 25th May 2007, the outline Transport Innovation Fund (TIF) bid was approved for initial (first stage) consultation.
Stage 1:
The purpose of this initial stage is to seek the views of motorists, users of public transport, the business community and other stakeholders to gauge whether the proposal is acceptable to the public and the business community.
In June 2007, there will be dedicated opinion polling exercises alongside events to canvass the views of both the Greater Manchester public and business community. This will involve telephone polls, events throughout Greater Manchester, public forums and business forums. Views are also sought through the GM Future Transport website www.gmfuturetransport.co.uk
An information leaflet outlining the TIF bid, including details of the proposed congestion charge, will be distributed to every single house in Greater Manchester.
All this activity is consistent with the test, which requires that the measures be acceptable to both the Greater Manchester public and business community.
AGMA will consider the outcome of this initial consultation prior to taking a decision on whether to submit a bid to the Government by the 31st July 2007.
Stage 2:
If AGMA does decide to submit a bid at the end of July, a formal (second stage), statutory consultation, as set out by the Department for Transport, will be undertaken. This will include full consultation around each and every individual scheme proposed in the TIF bid outlined on May 25th.
Womble, Westhoughton (13/06/2007 at 11:13)
Chris, Irlam (13/06/2007 at 11:29)
Why are local MP's views not being taken into account?
Why are local councillors views not being taken into account?
Why are local businesses views not being taken into account?
Why are the resident's views not being taken into account?
The ONLY way to take EVERYONES views into account is in a referendum - not by asking a select few at public transport-related events!
Jake Long, City Centre, Manchester (13/06/2007 at 11:31)
I feel safe in the knowledge that if the consultation process is as you describe, that there is no chance of this scheme going ahead because there is no way that the public of Manchester will back a scheme that will more than likely make the entire area bankrupt.
To put it another way Kurt, if you were a business owner and I turned around to you and said: "Hi, I would like to reduce your customer base by a minimum of 20 percent, do I have your approval¿ What would your answer be?
....And if it is 'well if it helps to save the planet' then you want to get yourself to the doctors straight away because you need your head examining.
Kurt Stephens, Sale (13/06/2007 at 11:42)
The majority of people entering Manchester city centre do so each day on public transport, this plan will greatly increase that capacity, giving those businesses in the city centre many more potential customers.
So yes, if I was a business owner in the city centre I would be very grateful that the authroities are doing something to ensure that my customers and staff can continue to get into the centre into the future, and I will not have to worry about the potentially huge cost of congestion on my business.
Kurt Stephens, Sale (13/06/2007 at 11:43)
People voted for the existing councillors over the last 4 years or so, those councillors work towards a policy at council level, which then goes to the AGMA.
Would you rather these policies were set by civil servants in white hall?
Simon B (13/06/2007 at 11:56)
Greater Manchesters scheme will only be formally submitted if it is judged to have the support of the public and business community.
Unquote
So will AGMA be talking to Peel holdings or the small business forum, they have not yet done so.
Are they going to do a proper consultation with plenty of media coverage of what it actually happening in the consultation, and the questions thats are being asked, and how they are being asked.
At the moment, the plans we see are very vague.
They have not even defined were the inner zone is.
How can people make proper decisions unless they have detail information?
Or is part of the plan to keep the information vague so the public do not object to much until its to late?
J Sheldon, UK (13/06/2007 at 11:59)
Of course the first people who will want to claim exemption or expenses (on Council business of course, say checking out the local shops) will be the Councillors.
Will Councillors ever speak up against being blackmailed to improve public transport or just ride the gravy train (first class of course).
Simon B, none (13/06/2007 at 12:01)
Here is the opinions page that Kurt has described.
www.gmfuturetransport.org/opinions.php
Pass it far and wide please people.
Keep demanding a referendum.
Kurt Stephens, Sale (13/06/2007 at 12:08)
If Chris wants to run against Roger Jones in the Irlam ward next spring (who is up for election) and start a one issue party that is anti-congestion charging, if the public as a whole disagree with their current elected representatives then he'll have huge success.
That is the beauty of democracy, you have the oppurtunity to get rid of those that make decisions who do not agree with, just as people had that choice back on 3rd May.
Batfink, Manchester (13/06/2007 at 12:17)
Simon B (13/06/2007 at 12:45)
well, here are some messures I have had on how to reduce congestion without the C Charge
Cheap measures to reduce road congestion in Greater Manchester without the need for a Congestion Charge.
Bus lanes will be part time only, that it just before peak traffic hours, and will end as soon as it is over, if you can reduce the traffic as much as possible with clear roads before rush hour it will not be as bad.
Encourage the use of Car Pooling, cars with 3 people or more will be allowed to use the bus lanes.
Motorcycles will be able to use bus lanes, also provide them with secure parking.
Offer drivers of low emission cars who car pool incentives such as free parking or refunded Car Tax.
Large traffic light controlled roundabouts will be strictly part time, only to used to control peak rush hour, will be off at all other times.
Restore road space by removing poorly planed underused bus lanes.
Create Red Routes, these are roads where no stopping or parking allowed at any time, the idea is they are always clear.
Look at reusing the old branch line network, most of the foundations and stations are still there.
Give councils the power to force the bus companies to run all the required routes, not just the choice profitable ones.
I am aware there is an act in parliament at the moment that will give them these powers, but it also has some unpleasant parts too that need to be removed.
Put back the inset bus stops so the buses do not block traffic every time it stops.
Ban HGVs from the road between 07.30 to 09.30, and 16.00 to 18.00.
Offer incentives to haulage companies who only trunk between 19.00 to 07.00
Encourage tele commuting, but understand a lot a people do need to be physically at their jobs.
Heres a good one for you, create office pool buildings, that is building that several companies will use, they rent rooms or even complete floors, and their staff can go and work there, these buildings will be very close to where people live, thereby massively reduced congestion, the best part is the companies will build and run them, their cost to council tax payer will be minimal, the cost to companies will be low as they will share the costs, it already happens, they are called shared office buildings, encourage them.
Chris, Irlam (13/06/2007 at 12:47)
In Cadishead the incumbent Labour councillor lost to the CAP (anti-tolls) and in Eccles the incumbent Labour councillor lost to the Conservatives (also anti-tolls).
The local people did indeed speak!
In Irlam the Labour candidate got in by the skin of his teeth (157 votes) - the anti-tolls vote was split between the Conservatives and the CAP....add their totals together and Labour would have lost AGAIN.
I know for a fact, having spoken to both parties very recently, that both the CAP and Salford Conservatives cannot wait for Roger Jones' time to come at the ballot box.
Anyway, chances are he will lose his Chairmanship of the PTA very soon so the 'will of the people' will have already spoken via the unofficial LD/Con partnership in Bury.
Kurt Stephens, Sale (13/06/2007 at 13:06)
Obviously a massive vote loser for the party given they did better in Greater Manchester than the UK as a whole.
NB, Eccles (13/06/2007 at 13:07)
According to www.salford.gov.uk/council/elections/results.htm
The Community Action Party only came third in the Cadishead election.
Kurt Stephens, Sale (13/06/2007 at 13:17)
Next thing we'll know is 50,000 people work at the Trafford Centre.
So, they say that they do not trust politicians.
Does anyone trust Chris and Simon with their wild inaccuracies they post on these pages? I know who I bleieve, and it is the person with nothing to gain personally from promoting these proposals.
Chris, Irlam (13/06/2007 at 13:17)
And again, if you are SO confident the public back a Toll Tax WHY NOT HAVE A REFERENDUM?
Kurt Stephens, Sale (13/06/2007 at 13:21)
In Cadishead the incumbent Labour councillor lost to the CAP (anti-tolls)
In reality the vote was...
CON 895
LAB 888
CAP 496
Does he really want to be taken seriously?
Adding the pro charging Conservative vote to the pro-charging Labour vote and you get about 4 times the vote of the anti-charging CAP.
Now, remind me again why I should trust you more than an elected politician?
Kurt Stephens, Sale (13/06/2007 at 13:27)
I posted 6 good reasons yesterday explinaing why there is no need for a referendum.
You are not getting one, and you are sounding very much like a broken record.
How are the mass protests coming along out of interest?
5 years to go.
Kurt Stephens, Sale (13/06/2007 at 13:36)
5 years to go.
Sick of being blue, Tameside (13/06/2007 at 13:38)
Dick Turpin, Adolf Hitler and Robert Maxwell comes to mind.
Chris, Irlam (13/06/2007 at 13:49)
(Councillor.Macdonald@salford.gov.uk)
And only today the Bolton News carries a letter from the Conservative leader in Bolton informing it's readers that they too are AGAINST these proposals.
(www.theboltonnews.co.uk/display.var.1466903.0.0.php)
Indeed Kurt, it DOES seem as if I know more about local politics than you do - but then again I am not surprised at all.
And do you mind explaining to the folk reading this article why you consider their views on these proposals to be unimportant?
I am sure they cannot wait to hear why you think they should be ignored....
Simon B (13/06/2007 at 14:06)
al1 (13/06/2007 at 14:28)
So this is evidence of the fantastic public transport service we will be forced to use!!!! How many times have you seen a bus drive off despite passengers wanting to get on......for me it's daily. Great I can look forward to being late for work everyday because of some jobs worth!!! By the way is there any point objecting to the C-Charge, it's going to happen despite objections. So what if labour lose the next election, who ever takes over will not scrap it, and deep in their hearts, I'm sure all labour councillors know their days are numbered. Why not go out with a bang!!!
The glass is half empty