The party leaders have put crime at the heart of the election battle on the eve of their crucial third debate.
David Cameron – who was campaigning in Bolton – said Labour had overseen 'a stew of violence, anti-social behaviour, debt, addiction, family breakdown, educational failure, poverty and despair'.
But with Gordon Brown in Greater Manchester tomorrow to praise crime-fighting initiatives, home secretary Alan Johnson accused the Tory leader of talking 'claptrap' about 'Broken Britain'.
Mr Cameron – speaking after visiting the Bolton Lads and Girls Club with campaigner Helen Newlove – told the M.E.N there were 'no excuses' for crime.
But he said the government should have done more to give youngsters 'a chance to lead better lives'.
Mr Cameron, who will take on his rivals in the third and final televised debate on Thursday, said the showdowns had been 'good' for democracy.
And he insisted he 'got on personally' with both Mr Brown and Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg – despite their public spats.
"The TV debates are good because they encourage people to get involved and vote," he said. "But it is important we don't lose sight of the real issues at the heart of this election."
The Tory leader had chatted to a group of youths at the club before playing a game of table tennis against 19-year-old Daryl Haskel, of Bolton.
Daryl, who won 11-7, said: "I'm so proud of myself right now – to beat the man whose is the prime-minister-to-be, probably.
"I hope he wins – he is a decent enough bloke."
Mrs Newlove, whose husband was murdered by yobs outside his Warrington home, is campaigning for better facilities to keep youngsters from drifting into a life of crime.
She told the M.E.N: "I am impressed by David Cameron the person, not the politician. He is a good person."
Mr Cameron – who was an hour late arriving at the club after his team were separated from their bags at Manchester airport – had early been embarrassed on the campaign train after being confronted by the father of a disabled boy.
Jonathan Bartley accused the Tory leader of seeking to 'segregate' disabled children in the education system with plans to 'end the bias towards the inclusion of children with special needs in mainstream schools'.
Mr Bartley told him the policy was 'the wrong way to go' and said he had struggled for two years to get his own son into a mainstream school.
Mr Cameron, whose disabled son Ivan died last year, told Mr Bartley: "I would absolutely promise you I would never do anything to make it more difficult for children to go to a mainstream school."
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Cameron: "There are no excuses for crime..."
Perhaps he should mention that to the Tory faithful.
A bigger bunch of hooks, crooks and comic-singers I doubt we'll see again.
How about the crime of robbing tax payers with your foul expenses? Tch!
I have news for David Cameron ... there are excuses for Crime ..... its the constant weakness of successive governments, Tories inculded, in handing out inappropriate sentences to wrong doers coupled with the constant bleatings of the "do gooders" that has led to this downward spiral of crime ... just ask any self respecting voter !!!!
When I ask myself will ANY party that gets put into power REALLY listen to what the Electorate demands !!!!, lets face it, all Tories are that far removed from ordinary society (through their riches) that everyday crime does not affect them !!!!!!!!
The Liebour liberal loonies always make excuses for crime and criminals. We don't expect a resolution to the Liebour crime explosion any time soon Dave.
lets face it, all Tories are that far removed from ordinary society (through their riches) that everyday crime does not affect them !!!!!!!!
Ian Paice, Tameside
28/04/2010 at 01:05
what an utterly moronic comment.
The Liebour liberal loonies always make excuses for crime and criminals. We don't expect a resolution to the Liebour crime explosion any time soon Dave.
Moorlok, London
Liebour? You have the audacity to accuse Labour of lying in the middle of your own massive lie, both sets of the most recent official crime stats show them dropping once again.
Please post some actual proof please if you're going to make statements like that otherwise you're too easy to dismiss out of hand.
This guy wants to be every ones friend, he is a Pratt and he knows he has cocked up his chances of ever getting into number 10. I would like to see gold spoon bred Dave live on say Ordsall on his own for say 6 months on benefit levels of money, no television crew with him like the recent silly 1 week specials featuring some MP's and then let him repeat his remarks. The reason we have so much crime is due to society as 90% of all UK wealth is shared between the top 10% the other is shard between those who work our heads off only to be taxed taxed taxed and taxed and then the last 4 million live in abject poverty so thats why there is so much crime plus the sentences when crooks are caught are laughable.
"This guy wants to be every ones friend, he is a Pratt and he knows he has cocked up his chances of ever getting into number 10. I would like to see gold spoon bred Dave live on say Ordsall on his own for say 6 months on benefit levels of money, no television crew with him like the recent silly 1 week specials featuring some MP's and then let him repeat his remarks. The reason we have so much crime is due to society as 90% of all UK wealth is shared between the top 10% the other is shard between those who work our heads off only to be taxed taxed taxed and taxed and then the last 4 million live in abject poverty so thats why there is so much crime plus the sentences when crooks are caught are laughable." - Proper Sentences
This general election is certainly throwing up many, many strange notions... but I agree with you. (Not sure about your figures, mind, but I take your point.)
(Off for a lie-down.) ;-)
Ian Paice, Tameside
"lets face it, all Tories are that far removed from ordinary society (through their riches) that everyday crime does not affect them !!!!!!!!"
You mean like Blair, Mandelson, Prescott, Kinnock et al - all exceedingly rich people.
If you really think that all Tories are rich and all Layboh people are good working class stock with nowt in the bank, I suggest you don't vote - you moron.
Proper Sentences
"I would like to see gold spoon bred Dave live on say Ordsall on his own for say 6 months on benefit levels of money, no television crew with him like the recent silly 1 week specials featuring some MP's and then let him repeat his remarks."
I think I would lke to see Clegg, Blair, Brown, Mandelson, Prescott or any one do the same.
If you think that all Tories are rich you are a moron. Don't vote - you moron.
Liebour? You have the audacity to accuse Labour of lying in the middle of your own massive lie, both sets of the most recent official crime stats show them dropping once again.
Please post some actual proof please if you're going to make statements like that otherwise you're too easy to dismiss out of hand.
Brooklands - Liberal do-gooder
28/04/2010 at 09:04
I'd like to respond to this point - despite my inability to remember accurately the quote about statistics and lies - my view being if you believe that crime is falling, you are - IMHO - being badly misled or living in a different world to many of us.
Perhaps there are fewer car radio's being nicked these days, being mugged for a sony walkman happens increasingly less often or getting carjacked whilst filling up your Sinclair C5 has become a thing of the past, but if anyone believes violent crime or crimes committed with weapons is falling, based on government statistics, people's experiences in the real world suggest differently.
Here's some statistics and stories from last night's London Evening Standard:
Nine teenage killings in London this year (up on last year);
266 more knife crimes in London this year compared to last;
12,611 knife crimes in the capital in the last 12 months;
14 yr old boy in intensive care after being attacked by a gang of 10 youths in Tooting;
15 yr old Sofyen Belamouadden stabbed to death outside Victoria Station during the rush hour;
15 yr old boy who carried out his first stabbing at the age of 10, convicted of stabbing a 16 year old over a dispute over a Nintendo Wii game.
Last night news released about a 43 year old man stabbed to death in Surrey - one of the safest counties in the country.
I really cannot understand how anyone can argue that violent crime has not only risen meteorically in the last ten years but is actually falling. Yes there was violence and some awful things ten, twenty, thirty, fifty, a hundred years ago but I cannot believe anyone can credibly argue that these figures are falling or that there was more violent crime and the streets were less safe ten or twenty years ago compared to now, that its just reported more. I find that delusional.
Cameron - for all his many faults - is the only leader talking about addressing the anarchy in our society and associating it with the breakdown of the family, the increase in drug and alcohol abuse and the lack of discipline in the school system. This problem is getting worse not better. Labour brought in 24 hour drinking to a country with a longstanding alcohol problem, just to raise some extra beer duty. No consideration for the impact on society, no thought for the impact on the poor s*ds who have to deal with it in the A&E on a saturday night or the police on the streets or the ordinary bloke hoping to walk home from the station at night without being kicked to death.
So if anyone wants a reference to posh twits who don't live in the real world, consider the public school educated Blair now raking twenty million quid a year for selling his Iraq invasion life story and doing the US lecture circuit or peter mandelson who holidays on the yachts of russian billionaires with one of the richest banking families in europe or john prescott, hero of the working class, playing croquet on teh lawn at Chequers.
rant over. for now.
In reply to "David Cameron's Lucky Pants, on the steps of No 10!" ... I am no moron as you suggest, merely pointing out the reasons behind crime which you sem to be totally unable to grasp !!!, with your "non de plume" I can easlily see where your moronic sympathies lie and so undoubtably can others too !
The Realist SW14
I'd have a bit more respect for your argument if you hadn't pooh poohed official stats and then used some newspaper reports to back up your argument. We all know that everyone has an agenda but when Home Office stats are derided the British Crime Survey is trotted out, now that's not good enough either and we have to turn to Newspapers.
Some people will never be happy unless it's bad news.
"Cameron - for all his many faults - is the only leader talking about addressing the anarchy in our society and associating it with the breakdown of the family, the increase in drug and alcohol abuse and the lack of discipline in the school system. This problem is getting worse not better."
Yes, he's talking about it but like the true politician he is he's being extremely vague, just like all the other parties are being vague about anything they intend doing. What exactly will he be doing, when, where how much will this cost and how much will it save?
This whole election is depressing to be honest.
The Realist: "Here's some statistics and stories from last night's London Evening Standard:
Nine teenage killings in London this year (up on last year);
266 more knife crimes in London this year compared to last;
12,611 knife crimes in the capital in the last 12 months;"
The last two are to some extent fairly meaningless statistics, given that, as a result of the ridiculous extent to which knives are criminalised, merely having a knife in your possession is laughably classed as a knife crime.
If pointy keys were declared to be offensive weapons (which isn't impossible given the absurd anti-weapons hysteria which pervades the media and is pandered to by all but a few politicians), then you'd find key crime massively increasing next year and then the following year, when police were routinely performing stop and searches looking for keys as a result of the massive key carrying problem revealed the previous year, the statistics would be pushed up even further and so on.
Ian Paice
Oh dear. The french expression is non de plume.
Sorry nom.
merely having a knife in your possession is laughably classed as a knife crime.
Black Flag,
28/04/2010 at 12:24
are you saying kids carry knives for purely innocent reasons, like in case they suddenly decide to buy a piece of fruit on the way home and it could come in handy?
In what way is carrying a knife not justfied as a criminal offence, given the possibility that by carrying a knife the chances of stabbing someone is immeasurably higher than when not carrying a knife?
Are you suggesting the carrying of knives is something everyone should be free to do like carrying handbags and umbrellas?
Your key crime analogy is just stupid and you're better than coming up with something as trite as that.
"are you saying kids carry knives for purely innocent reasons, like in case they suddenly decide to buy a piece of fruit on the way home and it could come in handy?" The Realist SW14
In the past it was quite common for many people to carry a penknife as a handy tool. Today that would be a crime.
The Realist: "are you saying kids carry knives for purely innocent reasons, like in case they suddenly decide to buy a piece of fruit on the way home and it could come in handy?"
Who knows? Some probably carry them for self-defence, without ever wishing to use them, some probably carry them for the same outdoorsy excitement that kids have always carried swiss army knives and such-like for.
"In what way is carrying a knife not justfied as a criminal offence..."
Because it's ridiculous, illiberal, nanny-statism. It criminalises somebody for doing something which neither harms another person, nor displays a clear intent to harm them.
"given the possibility that by carrying a knife the chances of stabbing someone is immeasurably higher than when not carrying a knife?"
If we're going down that insane avenue of thought, should we ban driving, because the chances of deliberately mowing somebody down are immeasurably higher when you're behind the wheel than when you aren't; should we ban hot drinks too, because when you're carrying a cup of tea, the chances of you throwing it in someone's face and burning them are immeasurably higher than when you aren't.
"Are you suggesting the carrying of knives is something everyone should be free to do like carrying handbags and umbrellas?"
Yes.
"Your key crime analogy is just stupid and you're better than coming up with something as trite as that."
No, it's a superb analogy.
"I hope he wins – he is a decent enough bloke." Apparently so was Fred West until he had your vote of confidence.
Isn't it Mr Cameron that thinks hugging these hoodies is the way to reduce their penchant for ASB, violence, drugs and thieving?
Never mind the 'Poll of Polls'(LOL), just have a look at the poll on the right to see the way the real people are voting.
Black Flag,
28/04/2010 at 13:18 normally I have a lot of respect for your opinions because they're well argued and intelligent unlike much of the illiterate nonsense that's posted on here but I'm beginning to think you're just a WUM.
Cars are a means of transport and are rightfully found on roads. One would not ban cars because people can use them to kill, since the incidents of murder by car suggests cars are rarely if ever used as weapons. Society should have measures in place to deal with people driving cars under the influence of drink and drugs which makes the chances of 'death by car' much more of a possibility.
By the same token, you should not criminalise the owning or use of a knife, so long as its in its proper context, which is in a kitchen (ordinarily). When you take the knife useage out of its proper context - which being carried in a pocket by a youth/druggie/lowlife etc becomes - then it's reasonable to assume that it isnt being carried for its proper use but is being carried for potential violence. In that case, meaures should be in place to deal with people carrying knives if the evidence suggests they are being mis-used.
Evidence - notwithstanding our debate on statistics and the source of statistics - surely shows that knives carried on the streets are not for the purposes of aiding fruit consumption but are for the purposes of violence, criminality and intimidation.
I hate this duplicitous, evil and corrupt government more than most and despise the nanny statism they have created, together with its endless persecution of decent law-abiding people and hand-washing of the increasing mass who show complete contempt for the law. But I can't agree with you on this one.
The Realist: "Cars are a means of transport and are rightfully found on roads. One would not ban cars because people can use them to kill, since the incidents of murder by car suggests cars are rarely if ever used as weapons."
Straight in with a sweeping assumption there.
"Society should have measures in place to deal with people driving cars under the influence of drink and drugs which makes the chances of 'death by car' much more of a possibility."
Now you're veering off the topic. Drink and drugs are irrelevant to the topic at hand. You were talking about assuming the intention to use an object maliciously, not having a diminished capacity to use it.
"By the same token, you should not criminalise the owning or use of a knife, so long as its in its proper context, which is in a kitchen (ordinarily)."
Here's where your control freakery comes to the fore. Who do you think you are to define what the "proper context" for an item is? What's so special about you?
"When you take the knife useage out of its proper context - which being carried in a pocket by a youth/druggie/lowlife etc becomes - then it's reasonable to assume that it isnt being carried for its proper use"
No it isn't, because only idiots make that kind of assumption. Clearly you don't consider self-defence to be a proper use, or anything for that matter, if the carrier is in one of the groups you've taken a bigotted dislike to.
"In that case, meaures should be in place to deal with people carrying knives if the evidence suggests they are being mis-used."
Make your mind up. You just said your personal unevidenced assumption was enough to criminalise people. You made it clear that evidence isn't necessary if, for some reason, you "reckon" something.
"Evidence - notwithstanding our debate on statistics and the source of statistics - surely shows that knives carried on the streets are not for the purposes of aiding fruit consumption but are for the purposes of violence, criminality and intimidation."
No, that's just your knee-jerk assumption. You clearly want to exert your control freakery on people and you're working backwards to reach the conclusion you want.
"I hate this duplicitous, evil and corrupt government more than most and despise the nanny statism they have created, together with its endless persecution of decent law-abiding people and hand-washing of the increasing mass who show complete contempt for the law. But I can't agree with you on this one."
That's because you don't believe what you claim to. You are a nanny statist and you want more of the same. At least have the decency to admit it.
The People's Prosecutor, Manchester
"Never mind the 'Poll of Polls'(LOL), just have a look at the poll on the right to see the way the real people are voting".
You mean the way the MEN says they are voting?
Even of those figures are accurate, don't forget that Manchester is, sadly, a predominantly labour area where sheople will always vote Layboh no matter what.
Admit it. Go on admit it. The party is over. It's been fun but now let's get down to the business of saving Britian.
Vote Tory - Vote for change.
The Realist SW14
What were the knife crimes? Where they incidence of knife use, or people found to have knives, or seen buying/selling them?
Police priorities have shifted to target knife crime, so thye will be doing more checks on sellers, more random searches (such as the ones carried out by GMP recently), thus more knife crime will be found, it does not follow that more knife crime has been commited.
They said Britain was broken in 1993 after the Bulger killing and the back to basics campaign, remind me who that was under again?