Mr Cameron I hope you and Lansley are aware of this story and just in case they are not the M.E.N and its readers should write and let them know, as this will occur again again and again. You cant close the A&E at Rochdale and not expect this to happen, Rochdale is a large town and as such people who live there will become ill just like Oldham so disaster after disaster will sadly be experienced.

"An official" said this:

"Ensuring that patients get the right treatment at the right time and in the right place is an absolute priority for us."

So is this "official" saying that the right place for these patients to be treated was in an ambulance outside?

What does this "official" mean by "absolute priority"?

The NHS is an "absolute" disgrace and this country needs to look at a different way of treating the sick and infirm.

And closing all but 3 A&E units in the whole of Greater Manchester is going to solve this how?

It doesn't matter how much redundant capacity you build into a system, there will always be the time when it's not enough. The cost of redundant capacity is enormous because it involves unused beds equipment & staff on standby waiting for the 'just in case'.

Both of these patients died following admission one of them three days later! How on earth is the MEN justifying a connection between not being able to get a bed in casualty and their subsequent deaths?

There is no suggestion that the two women did not receive appropriate treatment, the only issue appears to be that the beds they were in were in the ambulance!

People die, old people especially, and when they have been sick and taken to hospital by ambulance there's a greater chance that they're going to die, unfortunately that's life! death happens.

I fail to see the point of this report, sure the hospital is busy, and occasionally there's an overspill, as long as I received appropriate treatment I wouldn't care where it was!

It is long overdue that the situation at Royal Oldham A&E is reported upon. If the ambulances were only 8 deep at the time of comment then it appears to have been a quiet occasion. Only last week ambulances were deflected from the unit and forced to travel with critically ill patients to the remaining surrounding hospitals while those in the waiting room were forced to stand as all the available chairs were taken.
Whilst the connection between overcrowding and the deaths of the specific patients mentioned may well be unjustifiable, the fact still remains that Royal Oldham A&E is overstretched, under staffed and massively lacking in capacity. It is a sad fact that people are and will continue to die as a result of the recent changes.

Quite frankly, I can't believe that sine people think that it is ok for a hospital to refuse to take a patient into the department and leave them in the back of an ambulance. You cannot treat patient's in ambulances, they are designed for pre hospital emergency treatment until you get to hospital. This is an absolute disgrace! andrew Lansley claims that frontline services are not being affected..... I think people need to wake up, how much more frontline can you get? £10.1 million in savings PER YEAR for the next 5 years for the ambulance service alone.... no cuts to frontline services?i can see the next headline being about someone dying while they wait for an ambulance. mind you, 'thoughtful' probably thinks that that is ok as well?

wonders when those suit peolple in the ivory towers will acknowledge what the front line staff are saying about the crisis managment of A&E departments & Ambulance services.
"Ensuring that patients get the right treatment at the right time and in the right place is an absolute priority for us." - this is what every dedicated professional strives to do but unfortunately cannot achieve in this overstretched service.

It is very frustarting as a proffesional trying to delivery the high quality care that every patient that uses the services deserves, yet we have to endure the abuse from these frustrated services users with little support from the management who make these decisions. They aren't around to face the flack are they?????

Something has got to be done to rectify the situation

As a Rochdale resident I am not surprised, how many more people need to die before someone steps in. Where is the promised A&E extension at Oldham made by Mr Wilders 4 years ago? People were concern then that Oldham A&E could cope; he told us an extension would be required and built before Rochdale A&E is closed. Well Mr Wilders yes Rochdale A&E is closed but where the extension.

The Independent Reconfiguration Panel clearly state on their website that the SHA must oversee and monitor the implementation of Healthy Futures, they also make it clear that they should assume lead responsibility for ensuring the continuity of safe, sustainable and accessible services for those people affected by all of the changes. (Well SHA where is it)

Heather Bainbridge, Kindly provide us with evidence of your brainless thoughtless comment, you are saying that in 99% of cases we don't even need the amount of A&E beds we have now in the NHS, you sound to me to be clueless. You say open all hours, well you usually find hospitals have to be as people can't choose the time they have a stroke or heart attack. Wait until Cameron has done the deals with the US moneymen cronies he met at Eton, trust me Cameron will completely mess it up and the outcome is sadly lives lost. Camaron and his millionaire cabinet use BUPA and other private medical services. Another thing is the vast majority of cuts in the NHS seem to be North of Watford.

Scandalous, absolutely scandalous. Everybody knew this was going to happen and now we 3 people that have died in less than 2 months since Rochdale A&E closed. A Government enquiry is needed

How many more will it take before they admit how wrong they have got it! My 85 year old mum was blue lighted to Oldham on the 5th May she was in heart failure the staff were brilliant after fitting her with an emergency pace maker and suffering a cardiac arrest she was put on coronary care, 3 days later she was woken up at 2am because they needed her bed and moved 3 times before a bed was found for her late afternoon she was tired out!
This is the sad situation the staff have been forced into by this uncaring management and stupid decisions to close down Rochdale's A&E.

this goverment is a sham and should be elected out same old thatcher again ect

Doctors are too busy to visit the elderly and the dying at home so they are taken to hospital, many die either en route or in hospital.
Cannot expect every hospital to have the capacity to take all these people in .
Its a sad reflection on the role of GPs.

Union official Craig Wilde, north west ambulance spokesman for Unison, said: "It is completely unacceptable to leave critically ill patients in ambulances outside A&E departments. It puts our members in a terrible position."

I know the ambulance staff do a great job and deserve much praise for coping with the unenviable position in which they find themselves but surely the position in which the patients find themselves is what is important here, a position brought about by changes and closures of amenities elsewhere, AT ROCHDALE FOR EXAMPLE.

Sick of hearing justifiable complaints about Penine Acute Trust. They have been so much complained about publically by not only the public ,but also prof. bodies etc. that it is time prosecutions happened .

Many people have died ,when admitted whith non life threatening conditions.Those 60+ in particular. They do not take enough care.

I moved to Cyprus just over 3 years ago. The system here is very different. It works!!! At A&E most patients are seen and treated within 1 hour. I have beeen admitted as an emergency 4 times and gone straight from A&E to a ward.
Bloody glad I do not live in England any more when I read about the total lack of care.
If an island like Cyprus can do a good job with more limited resources why are the English hospitals in such a mess?

If you live in cheshire the nearest hospital can be 10 miles away so stop wineing, any how although unpalatable to some the light has to go out sometime.

Unfortunately this is not an isolated incident and hasn't 'only' been occuring since a+e at Rochdale and several wards across the Pennine Acute Trusts have closed. The Royal Oldham Hospital patient load has been increasing over several years and staff are all to familiar with the winter crisis alone. Usually the months of March through to September are controlled. I fear that if these crisis' are now occuring in May, what diasters will we face this Winter. As a health care professional i feel let down by the powers that be and with such an overload of patients can feel ashamed of the service we are now providing. I do believe it is much safer for a patient to be treated in the ambulance rather than on the corridor as they have all the medial equipment to hand and it gives the patient the respect and dignity they deserve. I wish Managers would stop lying and face up to the NHS crisis and with all do respect feel they are employed to keep the NHS crisis on the hush and pretend we are managing as it is part of their role and extortiate pay. Why shut a Rochdale a+e department and several wards to employ extra managers to deal with the crisis when they can't fulfil their role. The situation simply can't be controlled as we do not have the capacity or staff due to the closure of Rochdale a+e and several wards trust wide. How much longer will it take for the Government and the Management of the NHS to take note, listen and act on the failings of the Pennine Acute Trust.

Seriously good reporting Amanda and Alice. This is just a sampler. I know its not always easy to publish these stories without the families permissions or the PAHT brushing them under the carpet as they have done.

Hope you keep on it

drop in centers are being closed, a+e units being axed. this so called goverment will put the last nail into the coffin. the end of the nhs will happen soon. when its gone it will never come back. its been on the cards for years. you wont be allowed to walk into a+e. that will be stopped..very soon

Might have well have written the headline - Two patients die after ride in ambulance! or maybe Two patients die after becomming ill!

There needs to be some kind of connection between the deaths & the cause, and in this case it most definitely has not been extablished that treatment in the ambulance led to their deaths.

It's really irresponsible & missleading journalism to suggest from the headline that there is some link when one does not exist.

I wonder what percent of beds that day were taken by people not born here and not yet given permanent residence here...?

Just saying...

Going back to my earlier comment regarding waking my 85 year old Mum up at 2am on Coronary Care at Royal Oldham because they needed her bed after suffering a Cardiac arrest whilst fitting a pace maker only 2 days previous and again at 3am to move her to another ward untill she was finally settled very late afternoon.
It isn't the fault of the overworked staff or the fantastic service the paramedics have been forced into they at the end of the day they saved my mums life and I am sure many more!
But untill they speak out and tell this management that lives are being put at serious risk if not lost by these "brought forward" rushed and pushed closures which there is definate evidence and proof that through closing Rochdale's A&E the other Hospitals quite simply can't cope with the volume of patients needing emergency care.
No amount of money training or silly sat round the table talking will ever stop people needing care just to help the Pennine Acute become a Foundation Trust which these brought forward decisions are all about, goodness knows what will happen when the Orthopeadic & Trauma wards close at Fairfield on the 2nd June and the Maternity, Special Care Baby Unit and Childrens Inpatients are closed at the Rochdale Infirmary on the 25th June
Frightening !

Ran Droid

BUPA doesn't handle A&E emergencies, doesn't take on patients with existing conditions and charges through the nose. It damn well should be making a profit.

I hope Pennine acute hospitals trust get hammered with Court actions. Hit them for damages. It's the only thing they understand.