Manchester has more crowded classrooms than almost anywhere else in England.
New figures show 85 of the city’s 130 primary schools had at least 31 pupils in classes – making them the second largest in the country.
And Stockport has the most crowded high schools in the country – with classrooms in all its 14 state secondaries having 31-plus pupils.
The news comes 14 years after the-then Labour government vowed to cut class sizes to 30 for five, six and seven-year-olds. The Coalition scrapped the requirement after coming to power last year.
There have never been targets for older primary pupils or secondary schools.
The figures, taken during an annual school census, showed that 65 per cent of Manchester’s primary schools had at least one class with 31 or more pupils.
Only Stoke-on-Trent had a higher rate (71pc) of crowded primaries.
In Greater Manchester, Stockport primary schools were the next busiest, with 56pc of schools having classes of 31 or more, followed by Trafford (55pc), Bolton (51pc), Rochdale (48pc ), Oldham (46pc), Bury (44pc), Salford (41pc), Wigan (40pc), and Tameside (33pc). Stockport council said its secondary teachers were given extra help in dealing with large classes.
Coun Mark Weldon, responsible for education, said: “The outstanding exam results year-on-year in our secondary schools clearly confirm that schools make appropriate decisions regarding class sizes."
Manchester education chiefs said they were hitting class-size targets – by putting extra teachers into packed classrooms.
Kieran McDermott, deputy director of children’s services in Manchester council , said: “The figures suggest that crowds of pupils are crammed into classrooms across the city with just one teacher and a blackboard and this is not the case at all. We’re nearing the end of a seven-year, £530m school rebuilding programme in the city that is already revolutionising the way that children and young people learn and are taught.
“Our schools provide 21st century learning environments with flexible work spaces and the very latest ICT.
“Exam results in Manchester schools are continuing to improve at a faster rate
than in other parts of the country and it is clear that this investment in our buildings – coupled with a workforce of inspirational teachers out there in our schools – is really paying off.”
Case study - St John's Catholic Primary in Chorlton
St John's Catholic Primary in Chorlton is one of the city's biggest and most popular schools in the city.
With more than 530 pupils, the huge primary dwarves some local secondary schools.
Classrooms can have as many as 34 students,although those for younger pupils have fewer. Headteacher Dominic Mulcahy insists that every pupil gets the individual attention they need.
He said: “Our mentality is that no matter how many children there are, they all get the same opportunities and the same degree of attention. Lessons no longer involve just sitting in front of a blackboard involve but activities such as learning Spanish or carrying out science experiments. It's not just the teacher trying to keep their attention all the time."
Mr Mulcahy admits it can be challenging to teach big classes. He said: “A lot of it depends on the ability and attitude of the teacher. Our staff do work harder and we are lucky to have some very experienced teachers.”
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I went to Webster Street Primary school in Greenheys, opposite the old Denmark Road Market in the early 1960's. Quaintly it had a playground on the roof! There were 44 pupils in my class, I have managed to avoid prison and not become an alcoholic or drug addict and went on to have a good career.
My point is, that to much emphasis is placed on the size of classes. What made the difference then was that we had committed teachers who knew their stuff and commanded respect.
What on earth is the problem with class sizes over 30? I'm 43 and at primary school in Rochdale we had 52 people in a class - I don't recall feeling left out, and it certainly never affected me in an adverse way (plenty of GCE O/A levels and 2 honours degrees).
The classes certainly weren't out of control or unruly - any messing about resulted in a good slap to the backside or back of the legs as I found out to my cost many times. A bad report or complaint from the school would result in severe punishment from my parents. Just imagine if these things happened today.
People these days need to get a grip!
Totally agree with the first two comments. I was at Primary School in the late 60s/early 70s, and we had 40+ kids in the class throughout. At Grammar School, it was 28-29 all through my time there, up to 1980. Clearly, the only link between class size and behaviour is: the bigger the class, the *better* behaved kids are....especially when they grow up! Equally, I'm amazed to hear local primaries with 500+ students "dwarfing" neighbouring secondaries. Had I gone to the local Comp, instead of Grammar School, I would have shared it with 1200+ pupils......and that School closes next Winter.
Why do independent schools have smaller class sizes and yet pay the teachers more? Because they do not have to support a vast bureaucracy of officials, advisers, officers, facilitators, providers, committee members, councillors and other non-players. The answer is obvious: the local authorities must get off the backs of the schools and let them run themselves as do the independent schools so successfully.
What a bunch of experts here using their experience from bygone times to illuminate what is the best for education policy.
Ever thought you might be earning 10X your salary and be a more rounded individual if your class size had been 15? Maybe your education isn't as good as you think it is.
Butch Tallywacker, & DogStar
Excellent comments both of which remnded me of my schooldays in the 50's & 60's when at both primary and grammar school I was taught in classes of 40+ pupils. And like you I also went on to university and have never been in trouble with the law. Young people nowdays are pampered by the education system which, I feel, is a reflection of the present me, me society.
Yeah overcrowded classrooms - that's what happens when you amalgamate schools and "cash in" by "selling off" the redundant school & its playing fields to "council friendly" developers. (All to then fund their "pet projects", of course!!)
Oh the poor children of today! I cry buckets full of tears for them, I really don't.
I 'came through' the comparatively terrible austerities of the 50's 60's and 70's. I sit here marvelling at how I did it when I learn how more awful things are for today's kids.
... 'ever tried to teach 30+ kids ?
The holier than thou brigade are out in force today. Would you rather your children or grandchildren are taught in a class of 20 or 40? Exactly, so stop looking through rose tinted glasses about how great education was in the 50’s and 60’s.
Welcome to third world britain...We will be sitting on the floor soon and scraping on slates...
When I went to a catholic school, each of us also had God, his son and the holy ghost with us all day, does that mean we had more than 30 aswell
And what's Stockport's answer to the problem? Close a good school bringing distress to its students and staff. Stockport worthy of City status? Don't make me laugh!
Yes of course however being one and the same and being omniscient he didn’t require any teaching and was, I imagine impeccably behaved, so wasn’t a drain on resources.
Stockport is a prime example of underfunding and council short sightedness. Stockport,being considered an "affluent area" by various goverments past and present, is one of the lowest funded in the country when it comes to education, forcing schools to cram students into over-sized classes. many of the Primary schools have well over 30 students per class, or are split into mixed classes with different ages in each class,with some children going through primary school having never been educated alongside others the same age. Going back 6/7 years when the LA shut down a number of Primary Schools in the borough, it was pointed out to the councillors at the time that the birth rate had risen(and this is without the level of imigrants to the area which also increases the population) and that by 2012-2013 there would not be enough primary school places in the borough to educate all those due to start school around then. we are now in a situation where classes are already overcrowded, before the increases, schools are having to teach in shabby old mobiles not fit for purpose, and the LA is forced to consider building a brand new Primary school in the Cheadle area to accomodate increased student numbers. and for those who say whats the problem with classes of 30 or more, they want to go and sit in a secondary school class in most towns or cities and then say there is no problem. many teachers are having to cope with virtually a full class of students with disruptive behaviour,no respect for the teacher or school leaders, they have little interest in being educated because they know they can go on the dole like mam and dad (education is for losers init!) and the parents take no responsibility for their childrens lack of behaviour.
I thought the use of the term Blackboard was defunct because of racial overtones. Interested to know why primary teachers struggle with 30 or more pupils. Surely as par excellence Blair/Brown policy of Education, Education, Education this was improved. And what about extra teaching assistance to cover pupils from other religions or countries language problem.
As someone with 34 years teaching experience I can tell you that the number in a class is secondary to many factors, particularly the nature of the kids. Public schools do not have to cater with kids who destroy the educational opportunities of others. They simply don't do 'pastoral care' -- kids who can't behave are removed. Secondly -- and this is something that no one is allowed to say -- the recent influx of kids who don't have English as a first language has had a disastrous effect on standards. These kids now make up the majority in primary school in inner London. They -- like those from dysfunctional families-- receive a disproportionate share of resources, to the detriment of the rest. The government's own figures show that every ethnic minority with the exception of 'travellers' – who don’t go to school -- outperform white English kids. If it was the other way round the liberals would be bleating about 'institutionalised racism.' PC has destroyed public education for working class kids and there is now less social mobility than any time since the 1950s. The liberal educational establishment has made English school the disaster they are today, the laughing stock of the world, with standards lower than in many third world countries. And Manchester is one of the worst offenders.