What about all these nitwits who say "us" and "our" when writing about "their" club; whose imitation 2-pound jerseys they buy for 50 pounds. As it's "club" I'm sure they will all be happy to pay the millions necessary to keep Glazer, Fergusion and the multi-millionair kids in the golden necklaces, Cheshire stately homes, fancy sports cars, and brothel visits they have a God-given right to.

Now where's my piggy bank?

Ref James Yates

A little brutal when you consider that it's ALL football that's like that but nevertheless, oh so true. When I watch players like Gibson and Welbeck who must earn, I guess, at least a million pa and produce decision-making plays that wouldn't be tolerated in the Conference and below. It was reassuring to see that 11 from Leeds went and played their skins off and deserved their victory so there is some justice left.
The fact is that the Glazers saw an opportunity of heads you win and tails you can't lose. Nobody else did and we're saddled with a situation where we don't progress because we're paying for that. It's not their fault that to attract quality you have to pay silly money to so called stars. I don't think it's fees that are stopping transfers in- a £40 mill player only costs you £8 mill pa whereas the Villa's and Ribery's want that (and more) in wages too. So we'll either find that SAF will either retire or dump a lot during what's rest of this season. I really don't mind which because if he doesn't do the latter - Giggs, Scholes etc of the lost-it group, Welbeck, Gibson etc of the never-will group and the Nani, Vidic of the do-it elsewhere mob - then he'll fudge it and we'll be back in 70's/Liverpool era again

The biggest idiots are the ones who turn up at the gate every game and hand over their hard earned (or claimed) cash to line the pockets of the prima donna players. You mugs. How much is a home game these days?

Who ever recomended to the shareholders this was a sound deal?? Gill and the rest of the board weren't for it then as soon as they realized it was going thru they becamme the biggest turncoats in the whole deal making sure their jobs were secured. Its no coincidence both United and Liverpool have had poor seasons as both are saddled with uncontrolable debt. Debt like this doesn't just upset the first team it affects the whole club and moral right the way thru is shot to bits.

by the time they have secured the bond or any other refinancing package that will account for another 50m leaving the club coffers to add to the 70m already paid to the corporate bankers in the takeover in 2005.

the amount of money leaving our club to pay interest and bankers is nothing short of a disgrace the sooner the yanks are forced out the better.

These people make my blood boil. What gave them the moral right to buy our club, and then expect the fans to pay off their loan which they used to buy the club. The premier league have failed the fans miserably in the "fit and right person test," for the following reasons. Due to the Glazer takeover ticket prices have gone up so much, that fans can no longer go to the games. The club is in so much debt now, that any money or profits, it makes goes out of the game, goes to a family that have no love or affection for Manchester United, or the game in this country as a whole. The Premier league should be called to task and questioned why they allowed such a takeover to have gone through. The same goes for Liverpool. Could MUST start to lobby the government or the premier league questioning why this takeover was allowed to happen under the "fit and proper person test."

I know someone will come on here and state the obvious....i.e. we were a limited company and a takeover was always likely to happen. Yeah,I understand that, but I also understand that the premier league also have an obligation to the fans who are the life blood of the game.

The 21st Century Man City era, not the Liverpool era, James Yates.

This is the legacy of Martin Edwards! Not content with making the odd million or two in dividends per year,plus Half a mill in wages as chief executive and having tried to sell the club to the clown Knighton and the crooked Maxwell he then sold the shares to anyone with deep pockets!
The objections of Gill and Charlton as the shares were scooped up by the Glazers was half hearted,the backing of the deal since the takeover has been sickening!

Red Army

For the previous shareholders it may well have been a good deal, they got their cash and probably are not that bothered about the club as they no longer have any investment in it, specially the two Irish investors who were on the end of the hate campaign from some fellow supportors

Amazing isn't it that the day before the Glazers bought the club, United carried 'NO' debts, had £30+ million in the bank and were widely regarded as the most financially "well run"
football club in the world. Yet within 24 hours of their purchase, United were in debt to the tune of £700 million and lumbered with "catastrophic" annual interest charges. All to pay for the vanity of the Glazer family.

I can now see United going the way of Leeds United!!

The 21st Century Man City era, not the Liverpool era, James Yates.

Any MUST representatives in the house???? If there is can one rep please answer me the following question.

Was it ever contemplated whether MUST could block the takeover when it was happening, under "the fit amd proper person test."

Don`t know whether it would have been possible, just wondered whether it was a course of action that could have worked. There are a lot of people slagging off the Glazers, (including me) but not many trying to work out ways to get rid.

I think that the Glazers will soon be ready to sell, to judge by these manoeuvres, and the club will represent quite an attraction worldwide. Perhaps a more reputable backer will come in, given UTD's global status (Korea, Saudi?). Let's face it, the only way is up, morally as well as financially.
I disagree with comments on here that the team will be affected by it all, previous teams have lived with the grasping meat firm that controlled the club from the fifties and the idiotic posturing of the eighties and nineties, and not done too badly, compared with other local outfits.

Think of all the "characters" who have owned football clubs.....Shinawatra and Maxwell to name but two.....NO ONE HAS EVER FAILED THE FIT AND PROPER PERSONS TEST!!

Do you not think MUST went down this route and every other? If certain people high up had been willing to give up their 25 pieces of silver it may have helped.

The only 'solution' is to re-float and have some scheme set up where supporters can club together to buy a decent share to get a seat on the board for the future. If all 'supporters' refused to buy merchandise until this happened you might see something change. But heads in the sand and all that!

the usual stupid comments about things you don't understand. Answer me this. What exactly is wrong with refinancing debt to a lower cost eh? Perfectly normal corporate finance even if that is difficult in the current economy. This is what the Morgan Stanleys and Goldman Sachs of this world do. It's called investment banking. A company puts the tender out and then companies come in with offers. someone gains a client and someone loses one.

A few points here:-

The 'Fit and Proper Person Test' only came in AFTER the Glazers' got control of United, so Shareholders United ( now MUST ) could not oppose via that route.

Even when the Fit & Proper Test came in, it initially applied AFTER the new owner had already gained control. This has now been changed, but is still very vague.

Once the Glazers got only 30% of the plc shares, they had the right to buy the other 70% even if those shareholders didn't want to sell - which is effectively how the deal was steam-rollered through.
The same situation is about to happen at Arsenal. American Stan Kroenke recently took his shareholding to 29.9% and is very close to a formal takeover in exactly the same way the Glazers did at United.

I was at United's last AGM and remember David Gill saying that the United Board could not recommend the Glazer offer to the Shareholders due to the excessive 'leverage' outlined in the bid.
Basically, the amount of debt that would be dumped on United was too much to be manageable.

Gill has since changed his opinion ( I can think of a million reasons - anually! - why he might have done this ) but the fact United are now looking for another £500M suggests Gill was right the first time. And this comes after United's most successful 5 years on the pitch.

At the time of the Glazer takeover, only the Glazers said it would work. They are paying 14.25% interest on some of their loans. This high rate reflects the risk the Banks put on the deal - and that was 5 years ago when Banks were lending to everybody and his brother. Things are now very different.

The cracks are starting to show - over the last 5 years, the debt has got bigger and bigger. The Glazer Plan is just not working, and it can only get worse.

They are looking for new backers. I suspect even the Glazers now realise they have bitten off more than they can chew.

The alarm bells are ringing on the good ship United. The iceberg has been spotted up ahead.
Many spotted the iceberg 5 years ago. We warned the Glazers. They did not listen.

They should have used their Buccaneers.

Don't worry. Tufty / Alias says that we have nothing to worry about and we will definitely sign Ribery and Villa in the transfer window.

Albert Square

I am not expert but am not sure the forcd purcahse at 30% shareholding is correct, as I thought the requirement for this was 98%, or thereabouts, although at 75% he was able to de-list the company.

My recollection of the take over was that the shareholding of the two Irish investors was the key (at 29%) and many fans opposed to it hoped that they would refuse to sell and scupper the plan, since the Glazers already held 30% and had launched a formal takeover bid at that time this would seem not to be the case.

MUST blocking the Glazers using the 'fit and proper test', ROFL.
That lot couldn't block a plughole, they are nothing but hot air and were shown up to be the bunch of malcontents that they are when the Glazer deal went through.
I have no doubt that the Glazers will refinance at a lower anuual cost in interest payments, sufficicient to make annual repayments comfortably.

Perhaps if they didn't pay the 'stars' so much to kick a bag of wind about they could be in the black all the time and surely SAF doesn't spend that much on chewing gum

citycentre

I'm no expert either - and even worse I was going off my memory, however, I have now checked the facts and your view of the situation is correct.

With a 30% holding, an offer to the other shareholders to buy their shares can be made. At the higher figure of 75%, then the plc can be taken into 'private' hands, regardless of the wishes of the other 25% of shareholders.

Thanks for putting me right.

So what if the owners are trying to refinance? Isn't that just the same as re-mortgaging your house to get a better interest rate?!! Or have just explained this complex state of affairs too simply for some on here to deal with.

My god the amount of posts I've read and answered from know-it-alls since 2005 on the debt the club was straddled with is almost silly and the best part is I've yet to be proved wrong (maybe next time eh...)! As a matter of fact we have had unprecedented success both on and off the pitch.

First it was we'll never be able to buy players now they have taken over back in 2005, since then we have spent over £140m on players (money that technically belongs to the owners and didn't have to be sanctioned by them even if it was made by player sales!). Then it was carrick will never replace Keane so we're doomed, Then we had Vidic and Evra wrote off after only half of their 1st season at the club.

The list of doom-saying since the takeover is endless and yet United still continue to be successful, still attract the best sponsers (Wasn't the AIG shirt deal withdrawal supposed to be the final nail in the coffin yet United then announce an even bigger deal with AON) and in general it continues to be business as usual at OT. Not bad for a club in financial free fall and on the verge of their empire collapsing ever since 2005. ;)

Well I'll admit the football we've played this season hasn't been the best I've ever seen but still we're only 2 points off the top of the Premiership, in the last 16 of the Champions League and although out of the FA Cup we're still on course to retaining the Carling Cup too. Whats more, we've done all this inspite of having the worst injury crisis I can remember to hit us this season, losing our World Player of the Year and in the middle of a recession too! Name me 1, just 1 other football club in the Universe who could cope with the conditions we have and still be able to sustain itself off the pitch and its success on it?!!!

Lastly no matter what happens with the debt the club will still stay the same, if the Glazers have bit off more than they can chew then they'll simply sell up as there are quite a few billionaire's out there who'd happily buy us if they got the chance! It's not like the Glazers are foolish enough to just walk away and leave their £1.5billion asset in debt because if they did again a billionaire would quickly snap us up, wipe out any outstanding debt and will have landed himself the bargin of the century! So please stop with all the doom and gloom and do what supporters do best, get behind their team.

Support the Team and Live the Dream.....

This makes interesting reading!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2010/jan/06/manchester-united-glazers-debt