Bullocks in talks with Stagecoach

Chris Barry

July 18, 2008

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Ralph Bullock Coaches office and garage on Stockport Road, Cheadle

LONG-standing transport company R Bullock is in sale talks with national giant Stagecoach, it emerged today.

In a brief statement Stagecoach, which was founded by Brian Souter, one of Scotland's richest men, said: "We can confirm we are currently in negotiations with R Bullock and Sons regarding the potential purchase of its commercial bus operations.

Discussions may or may not lead to an agreement and we will make any further announcement as appropriate."

Based in Cheadle near Stockport Bullocks was founded 79 years ago and operates school trips and coach tours, mainly in the north west.

The family-owned company refused to comment.

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ace, manchester (18/07/2008 at 12:44)

In britain we are becomming very near the edge of what is a uncompetative transport system where stagecoach owns everything?,every week we hear about stagecoach taking over old established coach and bus companies,its time to take our transport back.

Black Flag (18/07/2008 at 14:19)

ace: "In britain we are becomming very near the edge of what is a uncompetative transport system where stagecoach owns everything?"

According to the 2006 bus industry monitor, Stagecoach had a smaller market share than both First and Arriva, so I don't think we're anywhere near that stage.

From my perspective, we have two basic options with buses:

1 - Have an open market, where it is in the operators interest to provide the optimum service to customers to maximise their return.

2 - Have a system controlled by politicians, who are one step separated from the market, have no incentive to compete for customers and have little need to listen to the passengers.

Option 1 sounds far more sensible to me.

ace, manchester (18/07/2008 at 14:34)

Black Flag
The problem is that option one dosnt work because the operators dont want the routes with a few people on they want the lions share just like stagecoach have proved over the years.and arriva does the same pick the most profitable routes

Black Flag (18/07/2008 at 15:10)

ace, what you have said is precisely why option one is the only one that works. The most profitable routes are the ones where passengers want to use the bus, so they are the ones where the buses should be running. Why should buses be run on routes where nowhere wants to use them? You would end up with lots of empty buses running around and the passengers on the routes which are used would have to subsidise them.

That is why option two is doomed to failure. It takes control out of the hands of people who have an incentive to cater to the passengers demands and hands it over to politicians, who then do stupid things to please people like you, such as running empty buses.

ace, manchester (18/07/2008 at 15:56)

Black Flag
Its got nothing to do with giving passengers a service? like some of the people who have to walk miles to catch a bus because the bus that has been running for years isnt viable anymore so the few people who use it have to either stay at home catch a taxi or walk a mile or so to a bus stop? this isnt what ""public"" transport is all about.its providing a service for the public And unfortunately some of the public actually live a on route where the buses have stopped running since people like arriva and stagecoach have taken over..

Black Flag (18/07/2008 at 16:33)

Ace, if a bus route can't attract enough passengers, it will start running at a loss. If that bus carries on running, somebody other than the passengers will have to pay for it, either through tax (you know, that thing you're always complaining is too high) or by increasing fares on other routes.

That why public transport becomes a mess when it's controlled by politicians. They end up running a lot of almost empty buses to stop people complaining and don't put enough effort into the routes that are profitable and where there is room to attract more passengers.

An open market provides a genuine service, because it ensures buses go where the demand is.

Donna. Harpurhey (18/07/2008 at 17:52)

You can just imagine how these "talks" started can't you.

I'll leave you to decide the instigator of these "talks" but it will leave the bus using public in a worse mess as usual.

Phil L, Denton (18/07/2008 at 22:25)

Not totally relevent to the Topic, but Blackflag is obviously one of these "all or nothing people". What does he mean by running buses where "nobody" wants them? Obviously, Blackflag owns a car, and let me guess..lives in south Manchester, rather than an outlying council estate where services have deteriorated most under the "free market".

Having said all that, it has been rumoured for a while that Bullocks wanted to sell up, so chances are, Stagecoach's bid is hardly "hostile".

In fact, bearing in mind my points above, I'm surprised the smaller companies running along Wilmslow Road have lasted so long. Adult Single fares along Wilmslow Road are barely half those elsewhere in GM for any given distance, and loadings are pretty low as well.

Chinook, Manchester (19/07/2008 at 00:47)

Black Flag, can you cite any examples where your theory works? If so I would be interested to know

Chilli tongue, Manchester (19/07/2008 at 10:43)

I doubt Black Flag needs to rely on a bus very often. If a bus route was stopped because it wasn't making enough money his suggestion would be to move house. Obviously he is in such a position to do so, others I think not!

Black Flag (19/07/2008 at 11:05)

Phil L, it's all very well complaining about bus routes deteriorating, but the only reason a company would stop running a route is if there aren't enough passengers using it. I do own a car, but I also use the bus quite frequently, for the simple reason that it is a good option.

Chinook, one of the best examples is probably the one Phil L mentioned: Wilmslow Road, which is supposedly the busiest bus route in Europe. Services are frequent and fares are low for the simple reason that there is demand for buses on the route and the passengers aren't made to subsidise other routes.

Ace for PM (A.K.A Ex BD 118 118), Manchester (19/07/2008 at 22:27)

GM Buses was split up in Late 93 early 94 as the monopolies commision said it was too big

First, Stagecoach and Arriva have always been bigger.

Maynes Sold out to Stagecoach and even now stagecoach have put in dereg notices for the routes that are not taking any money

ace, manchester (20/07/2008 at 15:59)

Well judging by black flags idea we should have at least ten bus routes in manchester?Just the ones that make the millions for the bus company because they will close all the other routes that dont pay enough? "How much is enough is anybodys guess" But i know how greedy these large companies are,once they get total control of the network they will dump all the smaller routes in favour of the ones that they deem profitable and stuff the customers.

Black Flag (20/07/2008 at 17:50)

ace: "Well judging by black flags idea we should have at least ten bus routes in manchester?Just the ones that make the millions for the bus company because they will close all the other routes that dont pay enough"

But you can see for yourself that that isn't true, because the bus companies do run plenty of routes, for the simple reason that enough people use the buses to make them viable.

Marc (20/07/2008 at 17:52)

BF, i live in the back end of nowhere (also known as Millbrook, stalybridge). the bus i catch to work is essential to me because i don't drive. however, this bus is often half-empty because, as i said, i'm in the back end of nowhere. are you suggesting that i should have this service removed because there aren't enough passengers? i'd be interested to hear what alternative modes of transport you could come up. i refuse to drive, its too far to cycle, the train is too expensive. so, any ideas? pogo stick? space hopper? or how about i invest in teleportation technology?

Black Flag (20/07/2008 at 18:36)

So Marc, you use the bus and you have access to a bus. I don't see what your point is, because the system seems to be working perfectly well for you.

To answer your question, I wouldn't suggest any alternative forms of transport, because you don't appear to need one.

Marc (20/07/2008 at 21:06)

BF, you said:

"Why should buses be run on routes where nowhere wants to use them? You would end up with lots of empty buses running around and the passengers on the routes which are used would have to subsidise them."

and i said:

"are you suggesting that i should have this service removed because there aren't enough passengers?"

a straight answer rather than your stuffy form of rigid logic would be fantastic. thanks.

ps, i assume you meant 'no one' when you said 'nowhere'.

alvinlwh (21/07/2008 at 12:22)

This time I agree with Black Flag. Buses companies are businesses and they are out to make money, not losses. So any businesses will try to make as much money as possible. They are not a charity, so they should not provide a service at a lost. Instead they should concentrate on those profitable routes, and increase the fares on underused routes to make up for the lost.

jomov, Manchester (21/07/2008 at 12:59)

Well if your bus is cancelled due to losses made etc. then you can always move house.

Councillor Allheart, in a black cab (21/07/2008 at 13:11)

Buses are under utilised because they are smelly, scruffy, unreliable, attract anti-social vermin and are over-priced.

Buses should be state run and state subsidised. Paid for by the people for the people.

Mr Manchester (21/07/2008 at 13:14)

I do wonder about the outlook for this company when Stagecoach get their corporate claws into it. I fear it'll go to the dogs, Bullocks. I choose to cycle to work most days, but the buses are quite limited -- only operating between 7.30-9am and then 5-6.30pm. It's just not possible to travel any other time of the day.

Marc (21/07/2008 at 13:18)

"Well if your bus is cancelled due to losses made etc. then you can always move house."

i actually plan to move asap jomov. its not nice living in the heart of darkness, although the scenery is grand.

jomov, Manchester (21/07/2008 at 14:14)

Marc, detect the sarcasm!

Marc (21/07/2008 at 14:43)

sorry jomov, my IQ is at an all time low today :)

ace, manchester (21/07/2008 at 15:27)

alvinlwh
But buses should really be transport for the public run for the movement of people to and from work etc.Our bus services could be run by the people for the people not given away so that some people can make a gain on services that people paid for,for generations.

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