And so they should be charged, one bullet just to wound and stop him should have been enough.
What they did was tantamount to target practice all the bullets that they used.

Oh give it a rest, mogangirl, with your naive second guessing of the police yet again. There is NO SUCH THING as shoot to wound in such situations, and nor should there be. Anyone with training in firearms could tell you that.

The man might have been a Barrister but his own drunken, irrational behaviour was the sole cause of his demise.

It appears that morgangirl would rather have dead police hero's than a dead miscreant.

Shame on your view morgangirl.

I agree with MaccForum. MoganGirl, Shoot to Wound does not exist, nor does Shoot to Kill. You aim at the centre of the mass, i.e the Sternum. If the aggresor dies then that is clearly unfortunate but aiming at centre mass is taught to officers and if they aimed at a leg or arm they could be liable for prosecution. Fire enough rounds to stop the target, if there were a number of Officers present then it would explain the amount of rounds. Let us not forget this man was firing a shotgun out of a window into an area where there were pedestrians.

Would you be willing to take the decision faced by the Firearms Officers? They are not cowboys, they have to make an extremely difficult decision when faced with a man who has clearly lost it, brandishing a shotgun and with what one can only assume some level of firearms training?

He would not be dead if he didn't pick up the shotgun and discharge it, he had a choice too! Turns out it was the wrong one!

MACCFORUM.UK.

MY OPINION IS: THAT EVEN AS YOU SAY THEY ARE TRAINED TO SHOOT TO KILL: (I DO ACTUALY KNOW THAT) THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE TRAINED TO KILL SOMEBODY.BUT TO JUST DEFUSE THE SITUATION WITHOUT COSTING LIVES IF POSSIBLE!! JUST LIKE THEY HAVE DONE FOR YEARS WHERE I LIVE NOW.
WHEN DID YOU EVER HEAR OF SPANISH POLICE SHOOTING TO KILL? IF THAT WERE THE CASE THERE WOULD BE A HELL OF A LOT OF BRITISH LAGER LOUTS DEAD BY NOW.FACT IS IF THEY SHOOT HERE WHICH IS QUITE RARE THEN THEY ALWAYS AIM TO MAIM.
Countries like spain policemen from all walks of life are not zombies with guns acting like tin gods out on target practice shooting to kill every opportunity they get. In fact even in the most dire situations that they find themselves in. Those guns never leave there holsters and if they do ONLY TWO of them take them out to shoot, one to back the other up just in case the situation is not resolved first time with one shot.
There can be many policemen all with guns, and i have witnessed this 15 of them all with guns BUT ONLY TWO TAKE THEM OUT TO SHOOT and usualy one shot does the trick. Even though the drug dealers have a gun themselves trained on the police trying to get away.
NOW HOW MANY POLICE WITH GUNS ALL OUT OF THERE HOLSTERS TRAINED ON MARK SAUNDERS? HOW MANY SHOTS WERE FIRED? HOW MANY GOT THE TARGET?
And all this on a mentaly broken down man, not even intending to shoot a policeman at all.
Not even a desparate drug dealer trying not to be caught.
NOW DO YOU GET IT WHAT I AM SAYING?? I AM SAYING THAT YES I KNOW THAT THE BRITISH POLICE ARE TAUGHT TO SHOOT TO KILL. BUT I DONT THINK THAT THEY SHOULD BE. THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE BRITISH POLICE FORCE TODAY. BECAUSE IN MOST CASES THAT DECISION IS NOT ALWAYS NECASERY AT ALL. THEY ARE TAUGHT TO MURDER IN BRITAIN NOT TO MAIM LIKE THEY ARE TAUGHT IN SPAIN.

PS MACCFORUM.CO.UK
I do have policemen trained in firearms actualy knocking on my door from time to time . The local police from the town hall here where i live comming with forms for me to sign. For planning permisions an so on to do with construction that i am involved with here.
The local police Ruled by the local town hall do all this kind of work here, ALL have guns on them trained in firearms. Also one of my friends is married to a GUARDIA CIVIL. (Military police) Ruled from madrid here also trained in firearms

I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT POLICE FIREARMS TRAINING???

MACCFORUM.CO.UK.
PPS
I also have two nieces in the british army both time served in afghanistan 3 x 6 months at a time. one now currently serving in Cyprus.
One of them was the army pin up girl face complete with gun. splashed on posters all over britain.
A brother in law and a nephew time served 20 years and 12 years respectively also in the british army at one time.
So i also know a bit about army training on shooting people as well OK NOW???

A troubled soul behind the big money & accolades.

Mogangirl, you have a perfect right to express your opinion without being bullied or patronised.
What you say may, or may not be correct and only the presentation of evidence to the contrary will negate what you say.
I have no experience int his field and claim no "training in firearms" so cannot say whether you are right or wrong, but I respect your right to an opinion.

Maccspider
Thankyou!!
As for german monkey.
There were no pedestrians at all at the time he received all those bullets, he had not actualy shot anyone. And if it did take all those officers all shooting at once, Then i suggest they need some more serious target practice, so one officer shooting hits the bullseye first time around with backup of one other just in case he misses.

Can someone show me where Mogan says she would rather have dead policemen as implied by MFw?

"Can someone show me where Mogan says she would rather have dead policemen as implied by MFw? "

Quite right Slinky. It's a straw man again

Unfortunately it is fact that if someone points a gun at an armed Police Officer and discharges it he will die. Just pure fact. If a person carries a firearm in threatening circumstances then he is liable to lose his life.

All Police in this country are not armed. I understand the only ones are the firemarms units who respond to firearm incidents, and for security at airports.

I would rather have an armed miscreant die than a Police Officer.

It seems that anyone with a differing viewpoint to some are accused of attacking person, which is not so, is it spider?

mogangirl didnt say that slinky, Mf.w though seems to be implying it's better the police have a US style approach of shoot first ask questions later which I don't necessary agree with.

I am only speculating obviously but my gut instinct tells me Mark Saunders should have walked out of that house not been carried out riddled with bullets.

come of it, one comment supporting mogan's right to an opinion and mine asking for clarification is not an attack.

Drama queen.

Perhaps a fire arms specialist can tell me the effective range of a shotgun, Call of duty tells me that it a short range weapon, not dangerous to the police at the distance they would have been at.

"It seems that anyone with a differing viewpoint to some are accused of attacking person, which is not so, is it spider? "

Nope.
They are only attacking the person when they do attack the person not the argument

Don't be daft Sat.Cust he appears to be saying if some nut points a loaded gun at Police, he can be assured that that officer will return fire to preserve his own safety. dead simple to understand.

Mogangirl - I get that you don't think that the police should not be told to "shoot to kill", really, I do; and as your white knight maccspider pointed out, you of course you are entitled to that opinion. However, I strongly disagree with that opinion, and I believe your viewpoint is wrong. If you're happy living in a place where all the police are carrying guns, and where, given an armed siege situation with an individual waving a gun around at people, you'd prefer that the team sent to the scene only shoots to maim, then that's peachy - you're apparently in the right place.

The British police are not "zombies with guns acting like tin gods out on target practice shooting to kill every opportunity they get" - the vast majority of British police do not even carry guns! I think the vast majority of Brits prefer it that way.

As for the Armed Force personnel you mentioned - are you seriously trying to tell us that they are not trained to "shoot to kill"??

It does not cost anything to be nice.

Well, now that we've got that out of the way, maccspider - just what *is* your opinion on this subject?

In countries where the Police are armed, pull out a gun, point it at themm, and they will have to qweight you in a a scrap yard. What is the price of lead at the moment.

M/girl, spider and slinky face reality, please.

As for the unfortunate man who was shot I feel profoundly sorry for him and his family.

maccforum.co.uk.

Read all again i did not say that the armed forces are not trained to shoot to kill or even shouldnt be. What i said was i do know a bit about arms training from people in my family in the army.
The police i think should be going out to defuse certain situations hopefully with no loss of any lives. The army goes out there with guns and its there life or the enemys and thats that no two ways about it. its kill or be killed with the army that is common sense.
Terrorists i believe same as for the police its kill or be killed with them but they should make sure first.
The army is a different thing entirely to police officers sent out with guns to sort out someone who is obviously having a mental breakdown.
What about that guy some police shot dead and he only had a table leg wrapped under his arm that he was taking home to mend?
Are we supposed to not carry something wrapped up in the street in case we get shot dead by the police now?

The police where i live walking about with guns on them all the time nobody is feared at all about that here certainly not me.
Especialy since the years i have lived here how i see they respect those guns its almost as if they do not have them on them all the time at all its like its totaly natural for them to have them just another part of there uniform thats all.
You see heated arguments even fisticuffs and them dealing with obstinate people even swearing at them. in the resorts DRUNKS. But never ever have i ever seen one of them yet even going to take that gun out its as though they dont even have one. They will give a backhander or a good punch all the time rather than reach for there guns even if someone was threatening them with a knife crazed off there heads.
One thing that you dont do here is ever argue with the police swear at them or shout at them.
You have a problem or complaint about the police you do it the correct way you denunce them, they will have to appear in court to explain themselves within two weeks same as anybody else here that you have a dispute with. And they will be dealt with just like anybody else they will not get away with anything.
BUT raise your fist swear and shout at them youll get a backhander or a punch and arrested. They will not tolerate any lack of respect towards them at all.The police here are human they accept silly mistakes you might have made and will let you off, as long as you apologise when they pull you up about it.
None of them are jumped up tin gods
I have had some experience with the police in england and i know who i would sooner deal with all times the police where i live now definately. And the courts here as well Justice is very fair here. The police themselves have to answer to it here if they are in the wrong on the public.
And the police here are allowed to give a backhander as well if threatened in any way physicaly themselves and i agree with that But they still dont get the guns out UNLESS they are threatened themselves with a gun and usualy even when drug boats are caught and the dealers have guns on them they are never shot dead. only maimed.

"He that would live in peace and at ease, must not speak all he knows nor judge all he sees". --- Benjamin Franklin

Maccforum.co.uk

What is your your opinion on the De Menzes case?
Was that not murder by the police?I THINK SO! and they have gotten away with it on that one. I have no doubts that they will get away with this one as well.Because Britain IS a police state now in my opinion.