9 highly trained police officers get it wrong?, it seems unlikely.

I suspect that the family and friends of Charles de Menezes might disagree with you SW.

Of course he can't disagree himself........

You think thats a valid comparision?

Your point was that is was unlikely that a number of "highly trained" police officers would get it wrong.
I provided an instance where "highly trained" police officers did get it wrong and killed someone.

I guess so, 2 lives lost, its a shame, what a waste.

Having lived in London for two years now I have come to realise the Police down here don't f*ck about where it comes to guns or knives anymore... if you don't comply with what they say you get shot... simple as and quite rightly so!

I saw two instances yesterday where armed officers were out in force, it's not like sleepy Macclesfield and Alderley Edge down here you know, you don't need a shotgun in London and brandishing it about taking pot shots at people gets you killed down here period!

They don't mess about with rucsacs either, as Charles de Menezes found out

He didn't stop when ordered to by Police, he ran, he jumped the barrier leading to the tube and got shot...

If he had jumped on the tube and detonated another bomb the Police would have been in the dog house for NOT stopping him... no win / no win situation.

Being a country girl for 36 years and coming to London is a complete eye opener and NO ONE living in the country understands remotely what the atmosphere is like down here until you have lived here for at least a couple of years as I have found out!

Running knife and gun battles on main streets between rival immigrant gangs don't happen in Macclesfield and Alderley Edge do they? They do here and the Police have to have an altogether different means of dealing with them, it's not a few kids drinking alcopops!!

"He didn't stop when ordered to by Police, he ran, he jumped the barrier leading to the tube and got shot... "

This is not true. This was put about in the media after the incident but was subsequently demonstrated to be completely a complete fabrication.

"Justice" League. You may find this helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes#Disputed_facts_and_events

Oops. Read either completely or complete. Butterfingers!

Lets get to the truth. As for Justice League, have a word with yourself going on as if no-one has ever been to or lived in a big city before.

The spanish police have always carried guns. Whenever did you hear of them SHOOTING TO KILL ANYBODY
They might do it now and again TO MAIM, BUT NEVER TO KILL. And they prefer to use there batons first.
all these killings by the british police MARKSMEN!! they have no excuse for SHOOTING TO KILL which is what they all do.
What id like to know is IS THIS WHAT THEY ARE TAUGHT AND TOLD TO DO shoot to kill.? not shoot to maim? seems to me this is what is happening in britain. THERE DIRECTION FROM ABOVE IS ALWAYS SHOOT TO KILL.

"Shoot to maim" is the stuff of fictional TV cop shows.

A police marksman's orders are to incapacitate the target. I've heard this first hand from more than one police marksmen, and it obviously makes sense. Let me say it again - there is no "shoot to maim" or "shoot to kill" - it's "shoot to stop". The best way to increase the probability of hitting the target, particularly from distance, is to aim for the largest area of mass - i.e. the torso. Going for the legs or arms increases the probability of missing.

Sorry to say this but should he really have been waving a shotgun around and discharging it?

Mess about with a shotgun and armed Police will attend, threaten someone with it and you'll get shot.

Just what do you expect the Police to do, wave a white flag scented with lavender oil to calm him down?

Mogangirl the Police shoot to STOP.

Not to shoot the gun out of their hand or in the kneecap, but to STOP the target using the weapon against them, a member of the public or initiating a device. If this means two rounds in the head so be it.
Grow up and get a grip of the real world

Si 7068.
Maybe two bullets yes, But not 5. I am more grown up than you think. (No need for derogatory personal remarks is there.)

The trouble with the police force these days, is (they are like a gang in the street)with no conscience at all, they do not know when to stop! 2 bullets is enough one in each shoulder. thats a big enough target. What fool would go for the legs or hand anyway?

But there were multiple marksman on scene, mogangirl, all simultaneously ordered to stop the shooter. It's not a matter of having a conscience or not. It's a matter of following an order, once given, to take down a shooter who is endangering the general public. Trust me - you WANT people with this type of training, and this type of skill, on the police force.

As for bullets to the shoulder - you've still missed the point I made earlier. To increase the chance of hitting the target, the marksman must aim for the largest bulk / mass of the target - aiming for the shoulders would significantly increase the risk of missing what was likely a moving target, at a fair distance.

If you've never shot a firearm before, you can't appreciate just how much training is required to become a skilled marksman.

maccforum.co.uk.(I respect your opinion as i have never fired a firearm in my life.) BUT I have a niece who has served in Helmand Province 4 times now and she certainly knows her stuff and is a trained markswoman. She says the police are out of order in the way they are in these situations in civilian life,like a gang of schoolkids altogether enjoying it all firing off like they do every incident like this several bullets.
why??? so many bullets, if as you say they are TRAINED MARKSMEN!! one trained marksman should be enough then or even two.
one or two bullets should be enough from a trained marksman to do the job full filling the order to STOP.The man on that train the innocent one WAS NOT EVEN MOVING HE WAS HELD DOWN
what excuse was there then for all the bullets he got? Its the same as the police do with car chases. THEY ENJOY IT and innocent people get killed all the time they start that up. There is no need to chase them, they only have to radio through for a road block further on. thats all.I was in macclesfield at the time a bull escaped from the abbatoir it went down the main road heading into the town it was headed off with a roadblock, and ONE trained police markman using ONE BULLET shot it outright dead. Now that was an animal rampaging it had already smashed through patio doors in a house in tytheringon wrecked the house.a couple of cars as well. BUT IT ONLY TOOK ONE POLICE MARKSMAN AND ONE BULLET WITH THE RAMPAGING MOVING TARGET IT WAS foaming at the mouth and running at people it was.
There are two ways of looking at exactly what is going on on these incidents that keep happening. SO MANY BULLETS USED ALL THE TIME.

PS MaccForum.co.uk.
I certainly beleive WE DO NEED police marksmen. With whats out there on the streets today. And i would add some deserve being shot dead for the greater safety of the public at large, I am no do gooder softy,Once certain persons heads are gone, because of drugs or severe mental illness, Psychopaths and so on.
(They cease to be human beings at all) they have become killing machines. And im afraid when it comes to it. ITS YOU OR THEM. YOU HAVE TO DEFEND YOURSELF and if it means you end up killing them, then so be it.Better them than you. I was stalked once, after he had broken in my house and went to beat me up. I had managed to punch him back through the door, where he fell out down the steps and smacked his head badly,( he was already bleeding all over his white shirt where he had broken in another house before mine and cut himself climbing in the window he had broken. He then threw a brick through my stained glass window. He was let out on bail and forever after stalked me, the police would do nothing about him on me.
I borrowed a friends sons air pistol and told the police he gets it straight between his eyes , as i have to protect myself from him if you wont look after me.
I had to sell my house to get away. YES THIS WAS IN MACCLESFIELD He was a local druggie well known to the police.His house was stuffed full of all the xmas presents he had robbed off people. And it was boxing day he broke in my house still at it to see what he could rob He had two stiches in the back of his head because of me punching him out through my door.I am not a hard woman at all i had often wondered how i would react if i was ever attacked. (I even shocked myself.)To this day it still knocks me sick when i think of it.I used to shake all the time with fear on my own i was with just my young son.
but i slept with that loaded air pistol under my pillow at night and a knife hidden elswhere in my house. in case i needed it.I HAD TO
Until i sold the house and moved away. YES SOME PEOPLE NEED TO BE TAKEN OUT STRAIGHT AWAY.I agree with that. But there are certain circumstances of people that need to be looked at first. AND THE PERSON IN THE POLICE WHO ACTUALLY ORDER THE SHOOT SHOULD BE ON THE SCENE THERE NOT SAT IN SOME POLICE OFFICE MILES AWAY WHEN THEY ARE NOT ON THE SCENE AT ALL TO ASSESS THE SITUATION FULLY FOR THEMSELES TO MAKE THAT COMMAND

Mogangirl do you have to shout all the time, relax!

The satisfied customer.

I am relaxed i live in Paradise, I am just going to pick a papaya, mango, and banana from my garden to make myself a smoothie.In the valley of mogan surrounded by Fruit fincas, just two minutes from the beach in Playa Mogan where ill next be going for a swim in the sea about 5pm. Is it still raining there?

Still raining where?

"enjoying it all firing off like they do every incident like this several bullets. why??? so many bullets, if as you say they are TRAINED MARKSMEN!! one trained marksman should be enough then or even two. one or two bullets should be enough from a trained marksman to do the job full filling the order to STOP.The man on that train the innocent one WAS NOT EVEN MOVING HE WAS HELD DOWN what excuse was there then for all the bullets he got?"

Hi
It is sadly necessary sometimes. In the case of what was believed to be a suicide bomber then subject is shot in the neck, usually through the mouth in order to sever the spinal cord, if the subject is shot in the head this could cause a muscle spasm which could activate the device.

Usually the officer/s will keep firing until they are satisfied the threat has been neutralised.

This is covered under Operation Kratos which is based on techniques used by the Israeli Police and armed forces.

See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Kratos

It is brutal and very very unplesent but this is what is necessary to protect us from terrorism.